ausmini :: View topic - Stepped Drums & Contessa offsets

The drivers side front and rear wheels seem to extend out further from the lip of the panel above?

Hi Lillee, I dont think a wheel alignment will affect the relationship between the trailing arm and the wheel as the hub is fixed to the end of the trailing arm with no adjustment. The wheel alignment will change the relationship between the trailing arm and the subframe and could slightly change the relationship between the wheel and the body.
As others have stated I would suspect the body may have been repaired

A remote possibility is the wheels are different offset but this sounds unusual.
I think we are all very interested in the final outcome.

- If the tyre is rubbing against the trailing arm, it could mean the trailing arm is bent

I believe there are 3 different drums

normal - no step
moke - 3/4" step
cooper s - 1" step

I could be entirely wrong however but i'm pretty sure that's the go. And when i say "moke" it might not be a every moke thing, i'm just of the understanding that there is a 3/4" stepped drum which is "moke"

Author:	3DJ [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Stepped Drums & Contessa offsets
HI all, Just got the new wheels on to the car and they look fantastic but have a few concerns that I would like to get some insight on. Firstly, the car is a Mini K with standard drums and no arches (yet), the wheels are what i believe to be 10 x 5 contessas (not LS offset) with FALKEN FK 07E 165/70/R10 tyres. Compared to the stockies with 145/80/R10's they look mean as. Any way, the first oddity that i find is the wheel protrusion from the body is not the same on both sides? The drivers side front and rear wheels seem to extend out further from the lip of the panel above? Is this common? Should i do something about it? Also, as i have standard drums i am now getting some rubbing on the rear trailing arms. I am well aware that i now require stepped drums (search is my fried ) and i will have to get on to these. Is there different sizes available in the offset of the stepped drum? I do recall a comment when i have been trawling through the past posts on the subject that there was a deep stepped drum and one that only had 10 or so mm step. I could be (and most likely are) completely wrong about this. Anyway, all insight into my concerns is greatly appreciated.

Author:	69k1100 [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Swap them right to left and see if that makes a difference, could be two of the wheels have a different offset. I don't think that one side should protrude more.

Author:	mini_mad_matt [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:
I believe there are 3 different drums normal - no step moke - 3/4" step cooper s - 1" step I could be entirely wrong however but i'm pretty sure that's the go. And when i say "moke" it might not be a every moke thing, i'm just of the understanding that there is a 3/4" stepped drum which is "moke"

Author:	Rob1970 [ Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:
Stepped drums are reasonably cheap new and easy to fit on the rear as the hubs are easily popped off to put the longer studs needed in. Front hubs im not sure about whether you have to remove them to fit the longer studs. Cooper S Discs have a wider track than drums hence Leyland S had stepped drum on front to even out the track. As for one side of the front hanging out farther than the other. It may be a camber alignment difference / Worn bushes or even panel alignment. Cheers Rob

Author:	drmini in aust [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:48 am ]
Post subject:
Rear subbies & trailing arms are not all straight after 40 years, I put a 5mm alloy spacer on my RH rear hub to even the track up. But if it's out on the same side front & rear I'd suspect panel damage, as said above.

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Stepped Drums & Contessa offsets https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=80132	Page 1 of 2

Author:	michaelb [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:50 am ]
Post subject:
Just be aware that when you put on stepped drums that your wheels will protrude an extra 1" on each side. I put a 3mm spacer on the rear hubs on one of my minis so the tyres will just clear the trailing arm. The PO had done nothing and the tyres were rubbing

Author:	Lillee [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:27 am ]
Post subject:
The first obvious question is are you sure all 4 contessas are exactly the same? I know it sounds silly but doesn't hurt to ask to eliminate possibility that one might be a slightly different offset to the rest or have the inner hub shaved out or something stupid like that. Secondly are both drums at the back the same offset? One side doesn't have a stepped drum and the other does or something silly like that?? As Doc says the trailing arms can be all over the place. With non stepped drums the clearance at the back is very tight, but if alignment of the trailing arm is right, then they shouldn't rub. Even if you do go stepped drums to stop them rubbing the bigger issue here is the misalignment of the rear end which is causing the rubbing in the first place. It may mean the rear end is either toed out too much, toed in too much or has too much camber in either direction (more likely negative if rubbing). This is no good for your brand new Falken tyres and should be sorted out. Once it is sorted out, in theory you will no longer need stepped drums anymore, get my meaning? I would try to figure out what the actual issue is instead of applying band aid solution which doesn't really solve the problem and in the end you are still left with incorrectly aligned rear end which could lead to excessive tyre wear and squirmy handling. Put on the original wheels and tyres (assuming those don't rub?) take it to a suspension place and get the rear end measured so you know what it current setting is. Get them to specifically measure the rear end relative to the body lines of the car so you can figure out if the trailing arm or subframe itself is out of whack. Then get it fixed by either shims (toe) or in the case of misalignment with the subframe drilling out the brackets to solve the actual issue. Then put on the new contessas and it should no longer rub... Good luck!

Author:	michaelb [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:47 am ]
Post subject:
Hi Lillee, I dont think a wheel alignment will affect the relationship between the trailing arm and the wheel as the hub is fixed to the end of the trailing arm with no adjustment. The wheel alignment will change the relationship between the trailing arm and the subframe and could slightly change the relationship between the wheel and the body. As others have stated I would suspect the body may have been repaired A remote possibility is the wheels are different offset but this sounds unusual. I think we are all very interested in the final outcome.

Author:	Harley [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Stepped Drums & Contessa offsets
3DJ wrote: The drivers side front and rear wheels seem to extend out further from the lip of the panel above? When you changed your wheels, did you change each corner separately, or the wheels in pairs (either both front or both sides)? I'm guessing you did both on one side then the other.

Author:	Lillee [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:06 am ]
Post subject:
michaelb wrote: Hi Lillee, I dont think a wheel alignment will affect the relationship between the trailing arm and the wheel as the hub is fixed to the end of the trailing arm with no adjustment. The wheel alignment will change the relationship between the trailing arm and the subframe and could slightly change the relationship between the wheel and the body. As others have stated I would suspect the body may have been repaired A remote possibility is the wheels are different offset but this sounds unusual. I think we are all very interested in the final outcome. The fact that the trailing arms aren't adjustable means nothing. They were bad from the factory to begin with and can be bent with a hard sideways knock against a gutter in a slide in the wet for instance. I understand what you are saying but I am saying that there could be more to it than that: - If the tyre is rubbing against the trailing arm, it could mean the trailing arm is bent. - If the tyre is rubbing against the body and not the trailing arm, then the subframe may be bent where the trailing arm is mounted to it OR the subframe itself is bent relative to the body, either via actual bending of metal in the subframe or the body panels are bent where the subframe is bolted to the car. - It could be a combination of all of these things, a slightly bent trailing arm, a bent subframe and/or a bent body where the subframe mounts to. You can align the rear arms all you like to have exactly 1/16 toe in etc but if the subframe or trailing arm mounts are bent then you will have a crabbing car and the tyres do not point straight relative to the actual car. And hence rubbing either on the body or the trailing arm. This is exactly how Lillee was when I got her, she crabbed to the left noticeably. Although the toe and camber were correct, the left trailing arm was bent relative to the subframe but the subframe was straight relative to the car. So it required realigning the trailing arm back against the subframe which meant also changing the other side so that total toe in was 1/16 relative to the car body. So what I am suggesting is to figure out WHAT is bent where. Is it the body? Is it the subframe? is the trailing arm? or is it some or all of the above (all possible). Once you've measured it up right (no guess work, get it done professionally down to the mm, up on a hoist) of all of these things, then you can start fixing it back to straight and true.

Author:	michaelb [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:50 am ]
Post subject:
It looks like you have been through a few similar issues in the past. From my experience I have been lucky to have so far not had major damage or bent parts Quote: - If the tyre is rubbing against the trailing arm, it could mean the trailing arm is bent I do have this problem with the mini deluxe and it is due to the width of the Falken tyres and the just rub on the rear swing arm. Both sides are the same and the car tracks straight so option is either skinnier tyres or pack out the wheels. But at the end of the day a good wheel alignment is a must.

Author:	Lillee [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:32 am ]
Post subject:
Yeah I've been there done that! wasn't exactly fun. The fact of the matter is that they weren't clinically perfect when they left the factory and now after 40 years, nothing is assured! Yeah there isn't a load of room back there unless you are running stepped drums and deep dish offset rims.

Author:	Drewie [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:42 am ]
Post subject:
Our Mini K which we have had from new has Contessa mags and one of our tyres rubbed slightly on the trailing arm, a well known Mini specialist gave me two spacers made from old brake drums, just the centre area with the stud holes and the rest machined off (ie just the centre flat section of the brake drum with the 4 holes and the rest of the drum cut away), only about 5mm or so thick but enough to stop the rubbing. Car has never been in an accident and it was really only one side that rubbed. They have been on the car for a good 10 years or so with no issues.

Author:	TheMiniMan [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:
mini_mad_matt wrote: I believe there are 3 different drums normal - no step moke - 3/4" step cooper s - 1" step I could be entirely wrong however but i'm pretty sure that's the go. And when i say "moke" it might not be a every moke thing, i'm just of the understanding that there is a 3/4" stepped drum which is "moke" moke is 1/2 inch spaced "S" is 1" spaced approx

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Author:	3DJ [ Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:
Hey All, thanks heaps for your reply's, the car is down at my in-laws place as it is not on the road yet and i will need to investigate further when i get down next and update you all on the progress. Harley, you had commented on the order of putting on the wheels and you are correct, i had done one side at a time. Do you think this will make a difference? Dr. Mini, I suspect you might be on to something there. I have seen evidence of panel damage repair, i might try to measure the difference from a different point of reference to try and eliminate this as an issue. At this stage i think it might be the most likely. Lilee, I expect that i will be doing a ground up resto a few years down the track and i will be following up on your suggestions then. If feel that it is quite clear that to get the correct (and original) alignment i will need to drop off the rear subbie, pull apart the trailing arms and re-build with close attention to the alignment. At this stage in the game, considering my many difficulties in getting this car to RWC condition i am considering trying moke drums with the 1/2 inch offset on one side and mini stepped drums on the other to even up the track vs body difference. Anybody see any safety risk in this?