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Minispares road rally rubber cones
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=83615		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Adam68 [ Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Minispares road rally rubber cones
Hi All
I am wondering if anyone knows an approximate spring rate for the Minispares road rally rubber cones. I would think it would not be consistent as it compresses but I am just after a guide.
Regards
Adam
Author:  mini13 [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
Here you go, I found this on the web a while back so saved a copy.



Image
Author:  mickmini [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
would have thought they both would be less linear than they appear. Any ideas on how that was tested (it could make a huge difference)?
Author:  MiniBill [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
mickmini wrote:
would have thought they both would be less linear than they appear. Any ideas on how that was tested (it could make a huge difference)?

Well going by the chart it looks like it was done in a lab just using measurable weight/pressure id guess as looking at the chart it took approximately 110kg to compress the normal rubber cone 10mm and the red dot cone took approximately 210kg to compress that 10mm " if that makes sense " .

Probably would have been better to measure the cones going over a corrigated road as it would show the compression/travel difference between to the 2 cones in a step looking graph.

Cheers Bill
Author:  smac [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
mickmini wrote:
would have thought they both would be less linear than they appear. Any ideas on how that was tested (it could make a huge difference)?


I agree, way too linear for rubber compression... :roll:
Author:  mickmini [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
The right way would be to have the rubber spring mounted on the trumpet or a hi-lo that it is being used with. That way the natural non-linear rate and hysteresis of the rubber will be properly combined with the curved mating face that produces it's own non-linear effect on the rate. Also need to have it pass through the normal loaded weight for each corner, which that graph does - but the scaling is all wrong because a single cone will only ever see a 900kg load if the entire weight of the car, plus passengers and luggage was on one wheel. That is a rare occurance - no race car will be fully loaded up to 900kg and road cars loaded this way probably should not be driven in such a way to generate that situation! Also they are mixing their terms - Pressure is kg/m^2, they could also mean that horrible term kg force (which is meant to be the mass multiplied by acceleration, usually gravity), mass is kg - what do they really mean?

Like i said it makes a huge difference to interpreting the graph.

cheers
michael
Author:  Adam68 [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
Thank you mini13 I appreciate the information. Any ideas on where you found it on the net and if there is anymore info there.
Author:  ken@miniauto [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
Hi Adam
This is how the test was done
http://www.mokesinc.org/index.php/topic ... #msg119700

kjn
Author:  mickmini [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
Interesting Ken. That answers all of my questions and Spider tested exactly the way i said.

I do note that the graph in that moke thread is a lot less linear than the one that appears above.

Spider also questioned the spring rates quoted on the Mini Spares website. That one is easy - they are quoting wheel rates, which vary depending on the exact geometry, not the linear rates which he was testing.
Author:  Adam68 [ Sun Nov 24, 2013 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
Hi Ken
Did you see with the above graph if it was preloaded. Ie in my car would I be looking at 21mm or 30mm approx. I couldn't see the above graph on the link. I would say that my small diameter Hilos would be similar to the standard trumpet diameter.
Author:  mickmini [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
Adam68 wrote:
Hi Ken
Did you see with the above graph if it was preloaded. Ie in my car would I be looking at 21mm or 30mm approx. I couldn't see the above graph on the link. I would say that my small diameter Hilos would be similar to the standard trumpet diameter.


it is not just the diameter, but the shape as well.
Author:  smac [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
mickmini wrote:
Also need to have it pass through the normal loaded weight for each corner, which that graph does - but the scaling is all wrong because a single cone will only ever see a 900kg load if the entire weight of the car, plus passengers and luggage was on one wheel. That is a rare occurance - no race car will be fully loaded up to 900kg and road cars loaded this way probably should not be driven in such a way to generate that situation!


I think you're confusing static weight with a dynamic loading. The loading on an individual spring at the bottom of it's travel coming out of a pothole is going to be well in excess of a quarter of the car's weight. I have no idea whatsoever of the loading one corner might see in normal use, but it won't be close to 1/4 the weight.
Author:  mini13 [ Mon Nov 25, 2013 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Minispares road rally rubber cones
Ah thanks Spider, I got the info from the link below which only has the graph, good to see the extra stuff in the thread.

http://mk1-forum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3& ... one#p58977

Smac,

with the dynamic loading ie Pothole incident, the shock will be taking a large amount of this weight,
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