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Suspension choices for rebuild
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Author:  Leroy-Riding [ Thu May 15, 2014 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Suspension choices for rebuild
Hi everyone,

I’m starting the rebuild/mock rebuild (before paint) on my 'new' mini.
I have the choice of hydro sub frames which I have a set in good condition including hydro springs, I would need new lines and to convert the front to discs.
or I have the rubber cone sub frames from my current mini that I am stripping for parts that has discs fitted to the front but the suspensions is pretty well flogged out and needs replacing.

So options are:

1 - Go full hydro
2 - Replace rubber cone setup and use that
3 - Go coil overs

I’ve never driven a hydro mini before hence asking what people would do if they had the choice of realistically any suspension setup.

I like to run the car as low as possible (which my sagged rubber cones do nicely :D) but I would like to keep the ride as firm as possible, while the car will be a daily driver, its more or less a weekend daily driver as I ride a motorbike to work and back 5 days a week anyway so I am not too concerned if the ride is stiff but has great handling. It can’t possibly be worse than my Land Rover!!

Thanks in advance for the replies/opinions

Leroy

oh keep in mind I am on the lookout for a Van body also so whichever subframes I do not use in this build will be kept for the Van (unless i can find a full rolling shell for the Van i am after)
Author:  1018cc [ Thu May 15, 2014 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension choices for rebuild
Leroy-Riding wrote:
I would like to keep the ride as firm as possible)


Keep your flogged out cones then and replace all the other bits.

Hydro will give a beautiful soft ride that I believe is great for a daily but it WILL give suspension travel. I would definitely swap to discs on the front as well.
Author:  Leroy-Riding [ Thu May 15, 2014 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension choices for rebuild
1018cc wrote:
Leroy-Riding wrote:
I would like to keep the ride as firm as possible)


Keep your flogged out cones then and replace all the other bits.

Hydro will give a beautiful soft ride that I believe is great for a daily but it WILL give suspension travel. I would definitely swap to discs on the front as well.


so no coilovers?

the ruber cone subframes I have already have discs on the front, 7.5's I belive (not sure what they came off)

sounds like the Hydros will be what I want for my Van (will be used to transport all my RC helis to the flying field :) (once I can find one within my budget)

Leroy.
Author:  1018cc [ Thu May 15, 2014 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension choices for rebuild
Swapping to coilovers is a hell of a lot of work if you do want to go that far. I assumed that you were after a standard bolt together suspension setup?

To give you a bit of an idea what coilovers need check out the following two posts: http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22654&p=526335&hilit=coilovers#p526335 & http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22654&p=523839&hilit=coilovers#p523839. By all means go for the coilover setup if you want. Should be able to dial a setup like that in however you like.
Author:  Leroy-Riding [ Thu May 15, 2014 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension choices for rebuild
1018cc wrote:
Swapping to coilovers is a hell of a lot of work if you do want to go that far. I assumed that you were after a standard bolt together suspension setup?

To give you a bit of an idea what coilovers need check out the following two posts: http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22654&p=526335&hilit=coilovers#p526335 & http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22654&p=523839&hilit=coilovers#p523839. By all means go for the coilover setup if you want. Should be able to dial a setup like that in however you like.


I wasnt aware there was so much work involved in the conversion. I was looing at the SPAX coilover ktis from minisport and asumed (i know you shoudl never asume) that they were more or less a bolt in kit. .

thoughts on the coil replacements for the ruber cones? (the ones where the coils sint where the cones/block normaly do?)

I am fine to leave the old rubbers in, just im not sure they will stay in one piece when i strip them out to 'refurbish' the subframes. . . suppose I could just leave them in and wirebrush/sand/paint around them?

thanks
Leroy
Author:  1018cc [ Thu May 15, 2014 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension choices for rebuild
I think you can bolt the pieces straight in but the fronts for example just bolt into where the standard shock goes and this area of the inner wing was never designed to take the full force of all the suspension loading as well. I don't have a car like that and I don't know anyone with a bolt in coil over setup. The engineer in me (BTW, not a mechanical or automotive) just doesn't like the idea of putting a lot of force into a panel that was never designed to operate like that - same with the rears - the suspension forces are designed to go to the rubber cone / hydro bag that sits in the subframe, not the shock towers.

Coil springs in place of the rubber donuts seem to have mixed reviews from what I've read. I've never travelled in a car that has them but I have bought a set for the mini I am building at the moment because they are supposed to improve the ride. Might be better waiting for others to weigh in. For how cheap they are and how easy they are to replace in the future, I'm giving them a crack.

In the past when I have replaced the rubbers in the subframes it made a whole lot of difference so I think if you are going to go to the effort of doing a fair bit of front end work anyway, I would definitely try and replace all the bushes while you have the chance and it is easy.
Author:  bluewhitecoopers1968 [ Thu May 15, 2014 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Suspension choices for rebuild
I have Minispares Red coil springs fitted to my car. Originally a Hydro system, didn't want to change the subframes to fit rubber cones.
They have been on for about 5 years, the ride is stiffer than hydro and less suspension travel. I like them! They are trickier to fit than advertised.
I machined up some aluminium 25mm spacers to go in the rear between the subframe and spring, they have a spigot which is a tap fit into the hole where the hydro hose used to go, there is also a collar which the spring fits around to stop it moving. Also made some poly droop stops in place of the teardrops to prevent the springs going loose when the wheel comes off the ground.
At the front I welded a collar where the spring sits on the upper part of the subframe, this just holds the spring from moving sideways. I also made some larger droop stops for the front.
Edit: I changed the stub axles with dry type, added front shock mounts and hilos with Spax Shocks.
I think that's all I had to do for the conversion :)
Author:  IndigoBlueCooperS [ Thu May 15, 2014 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension choices for rebuild
I would stick to the rubber with NEW cones and Hi Lows. You can then lower it, and if it is too rough, lift it up.
I have one car on Minitastic town ride (with their Hi Lows), and one on the new rubber with Hi Lows.

The Minitastic look to be graduated in that the coil diameter does change from top to bottom. The Hi Lows are set relatively high as it is a daily driver for the wife. I find the rid rough compared to the new rubber.

The Hi Lows for the rubber have a radius on the edge which is also important as it assists with the spring rate.

My S is on original Hydro. Low in the front which is a common problem as the bags are 45 years old. Not sure how relaible the bags would be if I used it every day (rather than once or twice a year).
Author:  Leroy-Riding [ Fri May 16, 2014 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension choices for rebuild
IndigoBlueCooperS wrote:
I would stick to the rubber with NEW cones and Hi Lows. You can then lower it, and if it is too rough, lift it up.
I have one car on Minitastic town ride (with their Hi Lows), and one on the new rubber with Hi Lows.

The Minitastic look to be graduated in that the coil diameter does change from top to bottom. The Hi Lows are set relatively high as it is a daily driver for the wife. I find the rid rough compared to the new rubber.

The Hi Lows for the rubber have a radius on the edge which is also important as it assists with the spring rate.

My S is on original Hydro. Low in the front which is a common problem as the bags are 45 years old. Not sure how relaible the bags would be if I used it every day (rather than once or twice a year).


sounds like you a nice collection,
so what you re saying is the Rubber cones and hi-lo's sit lower and give a more comfortable ride than the coils in your wifes car which sit up high?

I am not worried about harshness of ride, just want to get the 'stance' right to match how it all curently sits in my 63 rusty body but would like to replace the aged suspension. (rubbers that I am sure are more or less non existent now, and shocks with 0 fluid left in them 0_0) it doesnt move at all . . . but I like the way it looks, I am not appose to comming up a little in height but not too much.

Thanks
Leroy
Author:  Scrimo [ Fri May 16, 2014 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension choices for rebuild
bluewhitecoopers1968 wrote:
I have Minispares Red coil springs fitted to my car. Originally a Hydro system, didn't want to change the subframes to fit rubber cones.
They have been on for about 5 years, the ride is stiffer than hydro and less suspension travel. I like them! They are trickier to fit than advertised.
I machined up some aluminium 25mm spacers to go in the rear between the subframe and spring, they have a spigot which is a tap fit into the hole where the hydro hose used to go, there is also a collar which the spring fits around to stop it moving. Also made some poly droop stops in place of the teardrops to prevent the springs going loose when the wheel comes off the ground.
At the front I welded a collar where the spring sits on the upper part of the subframe, this just holds the spring from moving sideways. I also made some larger droop stops for the front.
Edit: I changed the stub axles with dry type, added front shock mounts and hilos with Spax Shocks.
I think that's all I had to do for the conversion :)


Hi Bluewhitecoopers 1968.. Really interested in how you made the red coil springs fit in the hydro subframe.. It took me a while to realise what was going on when I fitted mine (ie wet subby not dry as I had assumed) and I still don't have a good solution..

If you have any pics or the dimensions of your adapters I would really appreciate it.. Also would be interested in seeing how you solved the problem of the spring dislodging when off weight.
Cheers... Steve
Author:  joyce1bro [ Sat May 17, 2014 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Suspension choices for rebuild
I have switched to protech coilovers in my mini and love it. Rides super nice and tight I can't fault them tbh. I prefer them over my cone setup. If you have to $$ go for it, just make sure you get a good set. I spoke with the guys at protech a bunch of times to make sure I was getting the right rates and lengths and am super happy. I was going to buy the spax kit cos I had spax dampers with my cones but after looking at loads of reviews, protechs came out on top by a long way. I didn't consider ohlins etc cos of price. Image

I didn't get the offset pins for the rear cos I had heard shocking stories of them snapping. This meant we had to make pretty big rear towers for the struts to sit in.
Author:  bluewhitecoopers1968 [ Sun May 18, 2014 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Suspension choices for rebuild
Scrimo wrote:
bluewhitecoopers1968 wrote:
I have Minispares Red coil springs fitted to my car. Originally a Hydro system, didn't want to change the subframes to fit rubber cones.
They have been on for about 5 years, the ride is stiffer than hydro and less suspension travel. I like them! They are trickier to fit than advertised.
I machined up some aluminium 25mm spacers to go in the rear between the subframe and spring, they have a spigot which is a tap fit into the hole where the hydro hose used to go, there is also a collar which the spring fits around to stop it moving. Also made some poly droop stops in place of the teardrops to prevent the springs going loose when the wheel comes off the ground.
At the front I welded a collar where the spring sits on the upper part of the subframe, this just holds the spring from moving sideways. I also made some larger droop stops for the front.
Edit: I changed the stub axles with dry type, added front shock mounts and hilos with Spax Shocks.
I think that's all I had to do for the conversion :)


Hi Bluewhitecoopers 1968.. Really interested in how you made the red coil springs fit in the hydro subframe.. It took me a while to realise what was going on when I fitted mine (ie wet subby not dry as I had assumed) and I still don't have a good solution..

If you have any pics or the dimensions of your adapters I would really appreciate it.. Also would be interested in seeing how you solved the problem of the spring dislodging when off weight.
Cheers... Steve

Here are some pics mate, sorry I don't have exact sizes but you'll get the idea.
Richard.Image
Image
Image
Image

Here is the ride height and maximum droop when the wheel is off the ground.
Image
Image
Author:  gtogreen1969 [ Sun May 18, 2014 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension choices for rebuild
Saw the Wheeler Dealers Moke S08E02. They did the coil spring conversion. Looked straight forward on the TV show. But who knows how much editing is done.
Author:  bluewhitecoopers1968 [ Sun May 18, 2014 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension choices for rebuild
gtogreen1969 wrote:
Saw the Wheeler Dealers Moke S08E02. They did the coil spring conversion. Looked straight forward on the TV show. But who knows how much editing is done.

Wouldn't mind a look at that, is it on YouTube?
Author:  gtogreen1969 [ Sun May 18, 2014 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension choices for rebuild
bluewhitecoopers1968 wrote:
gtogreen1969 wrote:
Saw the Wheeler Dealers Moke S08E02. They did the coil spring conversion. Looked straight forward on the TV show. But who knows how much editing is done.

Wouldn't mind a look at that, is it on YouTube?

Yes but its in Polish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw8Zg6yqvQM
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