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DIY fibreglassing
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Author:  smac [ Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  DIY fibreglassing
I'm keen to have a crack at making a fibre dash, but have never experimented in the world of fibre before. Anyone done a dash before? Just wondering if I'm best to use epoxy or polyester? Or is it just a matter of cost?

Also, anyone any tips or tricks for what they've used as a release agent/material? I'm not 100% sure yet whether I will make a reverse fibre mould, or just construct it out of wood etc, but either way at some point I will need to unstick it from something!

Cheers
Author:  Mick [ Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY fibreglassing
I do a lot of fibreglassing for other reasons, (RC and full size aircraft construction) and have to say you can't go past epoxy resin. Especially in the home environment. There's so little smell (it smells like almonds) and it won't affect your skin. It sands like you wouldn't believe when you're cutting the edges back and feathering.
For work like yours, I like a product called Bote Cote as its a little bit thicker (deliberately so) and holds a nice fillet. West Systems epoxies are thinner, and I use these for my aircraft as it wicks in nicely.

I'm no expert, but its not rocket science. I use the fiberglass suppliers, and ask them for a suite of products. The two part expoxies as well as the accelerants.

I can't speak much about the benefits of the release agents, I do mostly fiberglass over components for composite construction techniques..
Author:  Tobermary [ Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY fibreglassing
Mmmmm how can I condense a second generation boat builder experience into a few sentences.

First off…. Go for it….fibre glassing is easy…….. slush monkeys….the official title…lol

You will be wasting your money if you use epoxy…..and making life a little harder…
Epoxy is super strong….and non porous….great if your planning to be under water in the mini or doing the carbon fibre look.
General purpose resin is the go …..polyester.
I would recommend waxed resin……… using wax resin the surface will not stay sticky.
Un-waxed is used when you want to lay more layers over it…..as I will chemically bit better together.
But in saying that if you have used waxed resin and need to add more glass over the top or need to join it or repair……. Give a good sand and wash with acetone to kill the wax.
The other good thing about polyester it is more forgiving mixing the hardener……don’t have to be dead on with the ratios…… not like epoxy.

Ok tips and tricks……….. what sort of shape are you wanting the dash to be like…..I need to know more then I can help with the mould.
If your looking for a flat item……well just use some white melamine chip board…… as the resin will not stick to this very easily.
And use some mould release wax……. But you can use normal car wax on melamine…. Heaps cheaper than release wax.
If you have shape and making a mould….. the first few times ….. I have always used pva release agent as you can pump water in between the mould and item and dissolve the pva agent to help it pull apart.

Ok if your going to just do a flat dash……I would cut a bit of three/four mm white backed craft wood. The stuff cabinet makers use that can be bought from most hardwares.
Cut to shape……hot glue or screw to dash rails to help get shape….. and glass…..

Or you could just get some white board (white melamine chipboard ) put seven coats of wax down then glass…..
Release of the board and cut to shape and fix to car…….if you do this in a day or two from laying the glass it is still green and will bend into shape easy.

Normally if you want shape…… you start off and make a plug…..the plug is the shape of the item you want.
Then you make a mould off the plug……….. then take a item out of the mould…. Great when you want to make lots of items.

One offs…… you just tend to make the item then cover the thing in glass, sand back until smooth….then paint.

One big mistake that I see all the time……is people don’t roll out there glass….
The amount off glassing jobs I have come across that is not done properly….
When you have wetted out the glass with resin you need to use a fibre glass roller to push out the air bubbles and to remove excess resin……
Most people just dab with the brush…….get a fibre glass roller………

As I have written this ….. mick has replied……… I can agree with every thing he has said……. But feel epoxy is a little overboard….(sorry mick no harm intended)
There is a lot resins and products that do different jobs in different ways….for different reasons……..if you do use epoxy then don’t get a fibre glass roller…lol

Bugger I haven’t even gone into gel goats….glass mat…..woven glass….carbon fibre or Kevlar ….
Give us an idea what you want to do…..shape wise…. Look….strength……..how much money is in your wallet……credit card details…..
The most complaint when you fibre glass……for the first time…..
How do you stop the itching………..lol……

Tell all my apprentices I have had…… get use to it……you will desensitize after a few months………it does help if you use barrier cream…….and the big thing is to have a hot shower…and wash downwards….after working with it
The hot water opens your pores up and washing downwards with the water stops you pushing the fibre glass back into them.
Cheers Neil
Author:  frednutz&co [ Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY fibreglassing
for what you want to do use polyester resin not as expensive as epoxy also some epoxy resin not real good for health and ideally must be used in well ventilated work areas :(
poly easier to use
clean up using acetone
if making a plug and then a mould to pull a part from you will need to wax all the bits with a good quality canubra wax .do not use a silicone product not the best of working pals. the mould release agent is PVA also known as poly vynal alcohol
the catalyst
is MEKP this is not good stuff wear safety glasses do not get it near your eyes or mouth
there are some good books to be had read up on the subject and follow the directions.
it can be done well if you take your time do not rush things think it all out
practise also helps do things in small bits and hold back on the grand plans until you have worked it through.

have been working with fibre reinforced plastics for some years best of luck :)
Author:  smac [ Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY fibreglassing
Thanks heaps for the tips and info. The plan is only half formed in my head so far, so can't answer all the questions. My starting point was that I really like the Innocenti dash, but don't need that many gauges, and feel their positioning could be better. So the general design will be full width and height, two 80mm slightly raised and angled gauge mounts, and two small. Not 100% sure yet what to do about top & bottom rails. ie could mount behind, or could lay over the top. Either way will be well supported so do not feel it will have to be very strong.

I'm pretty confident with the structural and design side of things, the thing that has me worried the most is achieving a paint finish. I guess I need to do some more reading on gel coat etc.

I'm OK with protection from glass and clean up etc, stuffed my share of batts in ceilings over the years!
Author:  Phil 850 [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY fibreglassing
As a home handy person I have used both polyester and epoxy resin.
I now ONLY use epoxy resin.
Have a look at MINIWRX in Engine Conversions.
I simply shaped up layers of high density polystyrene sheet/blocks. Once sanded to shape I layed up layers of fibreglass woven rovings and rolled in resin with a plastic roller to squeeze out air to make a solid panel.
After the fibreglass cures I then put a wire brush in a cordless drill and it will tear out the polystyrene in mere minutes.
Sand all the surfaces to a smooth finish and prime and paint.
Epoxy resin does not dissolve polystyrene but polyester resin does.

Have fun
Phil
Author:  smac [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY fibreglassing
Phil 850 wrote:
As a home handy person I have used both polyester and epoxy resin.
I now ONLY use epoxy resin.
Have a look at MINIWRX in Engine Conversions.
I simply shaped up layers of high density polystyrene sheet/blocks. Once sanded to shape I layed up layers of fibreglass woven rovings and rolled in resin with a plastic roller to squeeze out air to make a solid panel.
After the fibreglass cures I then put a wire brush in a cordless drill and it will tear out the polystyrene in mere minutes.
Sand all the surfaces to a smooth finish and prime and paint.
Epoxy resin does not dissolve polystyrene but polyester resin does.

Have fun
Phil

Ya I was doing some reading earlier on using styrene as a base. What did you use to mould it? Hot wire?

Good points made here for both systems....time for some more reading I guess.

I'm thinking at this point I would be making a wood/mdf plug, fibre mould then finished product.

However thinking that through got me thinking I could just make the whole thing from MDF.....maybe a cheapo wood lathe in my future to make some pods....

Ahhhh me and my 1st world problems..... :lol:

Thanks all for the info
Author:  Phil 850 [ Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DIY fibreglassing
Most of the shaping was done with a hacksaw blade in a handle. Simply hacked to about the right shape and sanded it smooth.
Glass it up, sand smooth, done.
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