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 Post subject: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:26 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Buderim, QLD
Hi folks,

It's likely this question has been aired before, but I had two conversations a while back that really threw it into focus for me.

The first involved a bloke who was waiting by the Cooper S in the Woolies car-park when I came out - nothing unusual about that - I enjoy chatting to enthusiasts at any opportunity. This was a bit different. He asked me what I had modified, and when I told him (wheels, motor, interior suspension - all fairly moderate in my opinion), he muttered "Shouldn't be allowed to have one!". I was surprised, and asked him to repeat what he said, and he told me that the Cooper S was in his opinion the 'perfect icon' of the sixties, and should not be 'butchered' by people who didn't appreciate it. He suggested I should return everything to absolute standard and be glad I was lucky enough to own one.

I will admit I was a trifle miffed by this stage. Min and I have been together for 34 years, and even if she isn't his cup of tea, there was no need to be rude. So I respectfully asked him "Who do you think owns this car?", and he answered "I suppose you do". I respectfully said "Damn right, and I will do with it as I please. Now f$@# off!" - which he did...

The second conversation occurred a few weeks later - ironically at the same place, with a different bloke. I was a bit apprehensive, but when I got closer he smiled so widely I couldn't help smiling back. He told me that he "loves" the car, and asked to have a look inside and at the engine. He claimed he had been a works driver for Mercedes in the late fifties, had owned a gulling SL, and seemed o have the knowledge to back it up. We had a great chat, and then he said "You know what I like most?....This car is driven and used as it should be!" I admitted the paintwork was a bit shabby in places, and he said "No, No...that is history!" I pointed out the large scratch my daughter made with a screw driver while 'helping daddy' at age three, I noticed again the chip in the windscreen we picked up on the way back from an EPIC party in student days... and a hundred other little bumps and marks (and a bit of rust).

The bloke told me he had gone back to see a couple of his racing cars - now in museums. He said that one had been kept as it was - almost as if he had just climbed out of it - it even smelled the same and he could see his initials still scratched on the frame - and the war wounds of battle -the chips and cracks and tool scratches.

The other had been restored to factory fresh, and looked as if it never turned a wheel. He said it was like visiting a passionate lover from the past, and finding out that she had forgotten you, erased every reminder of you in her life, and undergone plastic surgery.... In his opinion, a car's history is as important as it's condition, and while I love a really good restoration as much as the next man - i fear that some cars get a large chunk of their personality removed when every nut and bolt is blasted clean.

If any car was made to be personalised the mini was it. There's room for both camps, but I say lets get out there and drive the little buggers - too much time spent polishing your bits in the shed (as my wife puts it) may send you as blind as that first bloke. I know not everyone will appreciate my car - but thats' OK, 'cos I built her for me! :D
`

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Min - 1970 MkII S, 119hp Dave Anton 1380, SH Engineering belt drive, 1.5 rollers, 123Tune ignition, 48 DCO SP Weber, HP Headers, MSD, Maniflow ex. Swiftune SC/CR 3.7 + ATB, all KAD front, antiroll bars and gas shocks, 6 inch Minilites with Dunlop Sports


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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 3:53 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:18 am
Posts: 110
Location: Gold Coast
The world takes all kinds. As long as you are happy with it and it brings (most) other people joy. :)

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1975 1310cc Street Mini Custom
1974 Leyland Mini daily driver
2008 Cooper S R55 Clubman


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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:02 am
Posts: 1233
Location: Sandy Bay, Tasmania
Personally I would do very little modifications to a genuine Cooper S. But the way I see it is, if I had a genuine Cooper S, I'd sell it to somebody who is really appreciative of 'the real thing', and then use the proceeds to build up, modify and enjoy a different mini.

If you don't want to 'butcher' it, go put it in a museum, driving anything will eventually wear it down. But it's no fun in a museum, is it? Do what you want with it, it's yours after all.


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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:26 pm
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Location: Buderim, QLD
Fair point, Irish. I don't feel I have butchered the car, everything is bolt on, and I have all the original parts. I confess to cutting a small piece out of the firewall for the air box, but I have that too... I think a measure of respect is what is needed from all sides. We are all in love with the same machinery, and it's the spirit of the mini as much as the metal of it, that makes it the experience it is. I would not like to see a genuine S (or any other mini) hacked about, and would not go down the road of engine swaps, larger wheels, fuel injection etc. My car has just had some components upgraded to keep a balance between performance, nostalgia, the competition heritage of the S and my own history with this car. I have threatened to sell it in the past, but I don't think that's ever going to happen. Now I have Parkinson's and a limited license, so I think Min and I will see out the end of my driving career....

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Min - 1970 MkII S, 119hp Dave Anton 1380, SH Engineering belt drive, 1.5 rollers, 123Tune ignition, 48 DCO SP Weber, HP Headers, MSD, Maniflow ex. Swiftune SC/CR 3.7 + ATB, all KAD front, antiroll bars and gas shocks, 6 inch Minilites with Dunlop Sports


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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:04 pm
Posts: 6750
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Cranky - your post that started this thread is a great piece of reading, as is your latest post. You certainly have a gift for painting a vivid picture using just words. Have you thought about authoring some more before that dreaded disease takes hold?

Regarding your original dilemma (restore versus use), I'm guessing your Cooper S wouldn't have been in the Woolies car park if it were in absolutely pristine condition. Good on you for treating it the way I think it would like to be treated, if it could talk. The Cooper S was bred for enthusiastic driving. I reckon it wouldn't mind getting a few battle scars along the way, much like a black eye being a badge of honour in the sporting world.

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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:03 pm
Posts: 1479
Location: Qld, Brisbane
I think if you have had the car and used it for 34 years then you are the only person with a worthwhile opinion on what state the car should be in. Everyone else doesn't matter.


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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 4:53 pm
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Location: Port Stephens, a little north of Newcastle, Australia
I fully appreciate both camps. We need both types of guys.
If a guy owned the one car for 34 years, the car is entitled to gather years of character.
And even more so if he had owned the car from new or near new.
But hey! If all the mods are bolt on or reversible....absolutely no one should ever, ever think of complaining.


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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:25 pm
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Location: Brissy
I completely agree with the second guy.
I would much rather a scruffy individual car, than a showroom perfect restoration that i would be scared to use.

Minis became famous because they were a cheap and fun everyday car. I think we need to keep them like that :D

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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:39 pm
Posts: 585
Location: qld
you have made one huge mistake......... never park anything in the buderim woolies carpark!!!!!! the place where the lines are seen mores as guides and the occasional rub of metal and ding of bumpers signals nearly there to the driver.... :)


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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 7:19 pm
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Location: Yandina,Sunshine Coast,QLD
I agree with MG, we need both camps.
I enjoy seeing the fully restored cars to 100% perfect condition at the shows and I also love driving beside the well used and "kept on the road repairs needed" minis as we go to the shows to check out the trailer queens.
But neither camp should be insulting or disrespectful to the other.

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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:26 pm
Posts: 817
Location: Adelaide
Very few owners left them unmodified back in the 60s and early 70s. My Mk2 1970 S went straight from the factory to get a Westbasto sun roof installed, then to the bodyshop to get the then new (for Australia) very chic clubman rear light clusters installed, then to the auto electrician to get the latest Clubman GT dash and heater put in to replace the old oval centrepiece. An unmolested Cooper S was quite rare among my mates who all had them - some deseamed, some remodelled inside, some with metal flared guards, all with mag wheels and modified engines. I don't recall anyone who bought an S and left it completely standard. Now nobody would dare change them.

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Slide
1965 Mini Van (1360)
1970 Mk2 Cooper S (1310)
1978 Rover SD1 V8 (4.6)
1996 Land Rover Discovery V8 (4.0)


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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:46 pm
Posts: 526
Location: S.A
Like grandfathers axe. I doubt there would be a truly original example left anywhere, so what's the harm in making them a little more personal. I'm restoring my K but I want to drive it so it doesn't make sense to showroom it. Not to mention these cars were all modified at some point, that "gen-yoo-whine" factory fresh cooper s simply doesn't exist.

And just remember there's always someone somewhere restoring one to showroom, so yours is safe. I wonder when this sort of behaviour will take hold with the cv8 monaros, r32 GTRs, and other modern classics.


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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 09, 2015 10:57 am
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This debate will never be resolved with everyone having thier own opinion. No-one knows what car will be a classic in 30-40 years and after market improvements are always going to happen. And as previously said this adds character and history to a car. What is a shame is when a classic car in good original condition is purchased with the intent to chop up for a race car ect when all thats really need is a shell that can come from any model or condition.
But hey each to their own.
Good point made about the history each ding or scratch gives a car but i think there comes a time when the condition becomes bad enough that a rebuild is required. Not to say this can't be done respecting the history. This is what I hope to achieve with my project.


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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:59 pm
Posts: 1428
Location: Perth
To be honest this is why I sold my mk2 cooper s. I had painstakingly restored it to original condition, got severley ripped off on some parts but had to have them to make it as close as possible to how it was when it left the showroom floor in 1970.

Everywhere I went it was always the same wether it be car shows or the local shops, is it real, that should be a phillips not a pozi, used the wrong wing nuts etc etc. Very few people actually said wow that is fantastic, they seemed to take delight in trying to find something wrong with it. So after years of nonsense I got rid of it.

Now when I take out any of the others listed in my sig I dont get any of that hassle.

_________________
1965 Riley Elf
1974 Ex Army Moke
1997 Rover Cooper
2002 JCW Cooper
2003 JCW Cooper S


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 Post subject: Re: Restore or Modify?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:54 pm
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Location: Hunter NSW
Built in the sixties to be thrashed survived today to be still driven hard


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