Quote:
I can understand someone loosing an ID plate or compliance plate but how do you loose a stamped chassis number.
Good one !!!
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| Identity crisis https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=93780 |
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| Author: | Bellringer [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Identity crisis |
Hi All, I am new to this site and hopefully I can get some answers. I am looking at buying a 1968 Mk II Cooper S. On initial inspection all the usual tell tale signs point it to be genuine Cooper S and 1275 engine (using mini mania matrix etc) plus W/W Motor (rectangular) stamped 6/67. Boot lock 10th week 67. I cannot find a car # in the gutter on the passenger side of the scuttle panel between the W/W motor and wiper arm. The chassis # is stamped into radiator shroud in full ie YGS4S4 2089 and engine # is stamped onto block where the data plate would have been attached. Rego docs state - 1968, chassis # YGS4S4-2089 Engine # 9F/XE/Y 55412. These numbers are not listed in this forums Register list and relate to assembly dates in 1970 not 68. I know there were NO 4S Cooper S produced in Aust. Here is where it gets interesting, I recently managed to contact the gentleman whom restored it last - about 15 years ago. He advised me that when he took the body for painting the painter lost the data plate ( Hahaha), however he knew the numbers and proceeded to stamp them into the radiator shroud, hence the YGS4S4 ( I don't believe these were ever stamped just the #) The same gentleman told the current owner that is was the mechanic that overhauled the engine whom lost the data plate. I have also used advice from reputable Mini enthusiasts in Redcliffe and Ipswich and renowned literature available to try to ident this car. As there are holes in the info available I don't think the value is in the car. Open to info from the forum to help Thanks |
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| Author: | oldblade [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
Is this a white one ? Interior OK but paint in bad condition and owned by the same guy for 30 years Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Bellringer [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
No its been painted in British Racing Green with White roof |
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| Author: | winabbey [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
Bell ringer - suggest you get someone familiar with the Cooper S to have a look at the car. What you describe sets off alarm bells if the seller is claiming it is genuine. That's not to say it is a fake or replica, just that the lack of ID plate and incorrect car type prefix make it suspect. By the way, it seems to be a Mark 1, not Mark 2 as you initially stated. First to check is the presence of channels in the floor for the hydro pipes and location of the wiper spindles which will indicate if it is an Australian built car and give a likely manufacturing year. Then the Cooper S identifying features, such as fuel pump breather, heater brackets, position of the right hand fuel tank aperture, oil cooler mounting, etc. Read the intro to the Cooper S Register carefully and apply what is stated to your car. Suggest you update your user profile to include your location (see User Control Panel at top right of screen) so others living nearby can decide if they can assist you. The financial penalty for buying a "dud" can be substantial. If you post photos of the engine number and radiator shroud stamping this forum will advise whether they look original or not. |
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| Author: | simon k [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
sounds dodgy as all f*ck... no such thing as a '68 MK2 in the first place... |
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| Author: | gtogreen1969 [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
Who ever restamped it got the numbers totally wrong. Without seeing photos it sounds like a reshell or fake. I can understand someone loosing an ID plate or compliance plate but how do you loose a stamped chassis number. Please post up photos because if there are any major issues we can usually spot them a mile away. Photos of the Boot including the breather tags and boot board brackets, Fire wall with a close up of behind the master cylinders, a photo of the radiator support shroud, a photo of the suspension tower behind the booster, the front apron and oil cooler area, under the passenger side rear seat, Interior photos etc |
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| Author: | MikeJ [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
Quote: I can understand someone loosing an ID plate or compliance plate but how do you loose a stamped chassis number. Good one !!!
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| Author: | 1071 S [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
"....and engine # is stamped onto block where the data plate would have been attached..." No engine data plate on Aus Ss .. or indeed on "ordinary"cars. They came on the engine from the UK but were removed when the cars were built up in the Oz factory (as required by registration authorities). The removed tags were attached to a convenient pipe/hose at the radiator end using thin tie wire. They usually didn't survive long as, back then, not many people worried about numbers .. Things were more obvious... Cheers, Ian |
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| Author: | 9YaTaH [ Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
Bellringer wrote: The chassis # is stamped into radiator shroud in full ie YGS4S4 2089 and engine # is stamped onto block where the data plate would have been attached...... Rego docs state - 1968, chassis # YGS4S4-2089 Engine # 9F/XE/Y 55412. These numbers are not listed in this forums Register list and relate to assembly dates in 1970 not 68. The whole thing reads as dodgy (unfortunately)... However, there are also ham-fisted restorers and engine builders around who don't think twice/or don't know about where to be careful with the grinding wheel or mill (oops! there goes your engine number) Whatever it is could be very difficult to determine even for an expert if there are no "forensics" left I'd pass on it if I were you  
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| Author: | Bellringer [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
Thanks for the info so far. Will start with photos of radiator shroud stamping. It looks like some over stamping or plain bad hand work. Please advise. Apologies for quality. Kind regards |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 8:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
Stamping on my `77 Moke was as bad as that, some digits were only half formed. Must have been hard to get workers that gave a crap back then. 
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| Author: | RNY997 [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
An S body shell of this 'era' relies completely on the heater mounting brackets being 'spot welded' to the firewall and the RH fuel tank vent hose holding tabs being 'spot welded' to the rear seat back rest. These two tell-tale items are uber-hard to recreate as per the factory. |
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| Author: | Bellringer [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
Engine stamping and ID for 1275cc. I used the Mini Mania Matrix to check. Alternator with mounting bracket fitted, 6x head studs + 1 bolt, less than 90 Deg for big bore heater valve, NOT stamped with 12G1805 behind thermostat housing, cannot see if there is a 970/1070 or 1275 plate or engine size in casting on the back, has tappet/pushrod covers at the back, block height has extra metal above lug for longer stroke. Is there any other ways apart from pulling the head to measure bore & Stroke? The restoration guy said it has been bored out to 1330cc, blueprinted, havent seen the docs. It had a downdraft Webber which was removed and he installed twin inch and a half SU's. I have actually measured them. |
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| Author: | gtogreen1969 [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
Just look at the back of the block. The number you are looking for is AEG312.  The double stamping just means that it has been restamped and by someone that does not take care in their work. |
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| Author: | timmy201 [ Wed Sep 21, 2016 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Identity crisis |
970 & 1071 blocks are physically shorter than 1275 blocks. Without some custom rods or pistons you can't convert one to a 1275. 9F/X/E engines were fitted to late Mk1 & Mk2 Cooper S in Australia. viewtopic.php?f=44&t=90843 viewtopic.php?f=46&t=90887 |
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