Just stamp FS after the 22A363 makes it a 850 full syncro.
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| Gearbox Question https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=95454 |
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| Author: | captainwaldopepper [ Wed May 24, 2017 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Gearbox Question |
I'm overhauling my early 850 pudding stirrer gearbox and was considering installing a later 3 synchro gearset (if possible). Can a complete gearset from a 3-synchro 22G68 box be installed directly into an earlier 22A363 box without any modifications?. Cheers Dave |
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| Author: | peterb [ Wed May 24, 2017 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
You could put rear diff cover off 850 onto other box. Convert it to majic wand. Just test fit first to ensure machined faces line up. |
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| Author: | captainwaldopepper [ Wed May 24, 2017 10:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
Yes-i was thinking of doing this as well but like the idea of keeping the original 22A363 casing. I may need to go this way if the later gearset can't be installed in it. |
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| Author: | peterb [ Thu May 25, 2017 12:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
Just stamp FS after the 22A363 makes it a 850 full syncro.
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| Author: | RNY997 [ Thu May 25, 2017 3:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
I cant think of anything that would stop you changing the gear set provided the entire 1st motion, laygear and mainshaft assemblies all get replaced. |
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| Author: | captainwaldopepper [ Thu May 25, 2017 4:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
Thanks RNY997 I do have the entire gear set to drop into the 850 gearbox (1st motion, laygear and main shaft assemblies with new bearings, baulk rings etc) I was just concerned that the 22G68 gear set wouldn't work in the earlier box (and i don't want to find out once everything is re-assembled and i take the car for a drive!!) Cheers Dave |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Thu May 25, 2017 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
I once put a 997 Cooper gearset into an early 850 box. But it was in 1966 and I can't remember the details. |
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| Author: | captainwaldopepper [ Fri May 26, 2017 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
I'll do a dry run and if it looks like everything works-will give it a go!! |
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| Author: | captainwaldopepper [ Sun May 28, 2017 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
Well I've taken apart my 22A363 and my 22G68 gearboxes now and there are a couple of minor differences between the two. The main one is that the outside diameter of the mainshaft roller bearing on the older gearset is around 63mm whilst the one from the 22G68 box is 65mm. The 1st motion shaft bearings and all of the gears appear to be the same but the older gears have brass cones instead of synchro rings. I've only read about these early "brass cone" type gears but have never actually seen any examples. For anyone that is curious, here are a couple of pics showing the difference (the older brass cone type is on the left and the later synchro ring type is on the right (pics of 1st motion shafts).   The good news is that, apart from the outside diameter of the mainshaft roller bearing, the actual mainshafts from both the 22A363 and the 22G68 boxes appear to be the same. I haven't taken the mainshafts apart yet, but if they are identical, I should be able to remove all the old brass cone gears from the 22A363 mainshaft and install the synchro gearset from the later 22G68 box onto it. Stay tuned for further info!! Cheers Dave |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Sun May 28, 2017 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
The old cone synchro gears had bronze bushes in them, they were replaced by roller bearings in the later box. I think the mainshaft may be different to accommodate this. If you can't fit the later mainshaft and gears into the old box I would put the magic wand diff housing and shifter onto the 22G68 box and use that. |
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| Author: | captainwaldopepper [ Mon May 29, 2017 8:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
Thanks Kevin-the older brass (bronze) cone 1st motion shaft has a roller bearing in it but i haven't pulled the gears apart to have a look at them yet. I'll post more pics when I have the two main shafts apart. It's still an interesting discovery exercise for me as it shows the evolution of the gears and I've not seen the inside of an older gearbox before. Cheers Dave |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Mon May 29, 2017 8:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
It was 2nd and 3rd gears that were bushed. They gave problems, hence why they were changed to rollers. |
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| Author: | winabbey [ Mon May 29, 2017 8:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
These service bulletins may be of interest. Attachment: C 229_63 p1.jpg Attachment: C 229_63 p2.jpg Attachment: C 229_63 p3.jpg Attachment: C 229_63 p4.jpg Attachment: C 253_63.jpg Attachment: C 257_64 A p1.jpg Attachment: C 257_64 A p2.jpg Attachment: C 257_64 p1.jpg Attachment: C 257_64 p2.jpg
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Mon May 29, 2017 9:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
I like how they say the original cone synchromesh wasn't a problem. Back then it was well known that the 2nd gear synchro used to die early, often around 8,000 miles. It was identical to that then used in the Morris Minor 1000, however the added inertia of the Mini's drop gears use to kill it on downshifts. |
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| Author: | wild_willy [ Mon May 29, 2017 10:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gearbox Question |
Thanks for the service bulletins Doug. Amazing amount of info about early gearboxes. |
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