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Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=96171		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  gtogreen1969 [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
Does anyone have details on the changeover from pop riveted to spot welded?

I have seen a couple of untouched 1966 and 1967 cars with the angle brace pop riveted. The first car with the angle brace was 1344 so I assume this is when the pop rivets started.

Car 1741 has the rivets
Attachment:
Pop Rivets.jpg


Car 3400 has the rivets.
Attachment:
Angle brace.jpeg


The car in the 1968 brochure also has rivets.
Attachment:
1968 Brochure.jpg
Author:  Goldbrocade_62 [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
Makes me wonder now when i got my 67 the guy removed brace i spot welded mine back in thinking rhat was correct
Author:  63lcn [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
Mine is 2228 and it's riveted.
Author:  rodmac [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
Mine is 2513 and is spot welded.

Edit: it also has what appears to be a couple of rivet sized holes partly covered by the spot welds but only 1 top and 1 bottom that I can see? It is the original panel.
Cheers
Rod
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
4026 is riveted. But it was a race car and had a hard life.
Author:  winabbey [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
For what it's worth, this is what the BMC engineering documentation says about the Australian Cooper S grille panel assembly and the brace.

The Australian version of the front panel assembly (part #HYA3984) was released into production on 26/4/66 with pop-rivets specified to attach the brace (part #HYB1269). Presumably the UK pressed front panel was used prior to that date.

On 27/3/68 an amendment to delete the pop-rivets and add spot welds was released into production. A bit later on 15/7/68 the specification for the brace itself was amended to delete the four holes previously used for the pop-rivets.

Below is the full drawing, but I've also shown an exploded view of the drawing legend showing the various changes (change 3 is the one we are talking about here), and a view of the bottom attachment of the brace where you can see the number 3 in a circle next to the comments.

A circled number is used throughout engineering drawings to help locate the change referenced in the legend. You can also see the location of changes 4, 5, 7 and 9 in this view.

Let the debate begin on what actually happened in practice. :)

Attachment:
HYA3984 Panel Assembly Grille YDO6 wm.jpg


Attachment:
HYA3984 Legend wm.jpg


Attachment:
HYA3984 Centre wm.jpg
Author:  John Sneddon [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
4612 was definitely spot welded.
Author:  miniresto [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
Car 3765 pop riveted.
Author:  winabbey [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
We need gtogreen1969 to put some car numbers against the dates referenced in the drawings. :wink:
Author:  phillb [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
4801 spot welded


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Author:  AJ [ Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
3139 is pop riveted , late 1967 car
Author:  gtogreen1969 [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
Thankyou very much for all the replies. This is not as simple as I thought it would be. I have studied hundreds of photos and still don't have an exact changeover point.

What I can say is most of the cars that have been through a full restoration or had their angle brace or front panel replaced are now spot welded.

The majority of unrestored cars prior to Apr 68 have pop rivets and the majority of unrestored cars after Apr 68 are spot welded.

Looking at Doug's factory documents I would not be surprised if the changeover was around the same time as the wiper change in Apr 68 at car 4028.
Author:  63lcn [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
Great information in this thread and such a good question gtogreen1969.
Author:  miniron [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
4825 is spot welded
Author:  winabbey [ Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cooper S Riveted or Spot welded angle brace.
gtogreen1969 wrote:
Looking at Doug's factory documents I would not be surprised if the changeover was around the same time as the wiper change in Apr 68 at car 4028.

It may be around the same time as the revised wiper arrangement but I wouldn't specifically link the two changes. My understanding is that running changes were made once the item had been through the approval process, documented in drawings and released into production. They didn't group unrelated changes together so they could be released in a 'package', as happens in computer software development, for example.
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