Hi,

I've recently had my motor fully rebuilt and now painting it and getting it ready to go in once the body is done. I'm a bit confused about setting up the static timing (I think this is the correct term) so I'm after some help please.
I've read the recent thread about ignition timing on the clubman and have followed the procedure listed in the workshop manuals but I'm still a bit lost.

The bloke who did the rebuild gave me the following instructions as a starting point to get the timing good enough to fire up the motor.

1/. Insert distributor and turn rotor button until it clicks into place into the spindle.
2/. Turn motor over by hand until the rotor button is pointing towards No 1.
3/. Mark where No 1 spark plug lead is on the cap and put a corresponding mark on the distributor casing where the cap clips onto the housing. This mark is shown by the RED tape on the housing.
4/. Rotate distributor until that mark also points towards No 1.
5/. Timing should be good enough to get motor to fire.

I've done this and also tried the procedure in the manual.

1/. Turn motor over until TDC on No 1 and 1/4 mark shows on flywheel.
2/. When I do this, the spindle is as shown in the attached picture.
3/. Fit distributor as per above point 1.
4/. When I do this, the rotor button is not pointing towards No 1 - as shown in the attached picture. It's pointing more to No 3.
5/. In the picture showing the distributor without the cap on, this is at TDC and you can see the rotor button pointing towards No 3.
6/. In the same picture, I've marked in RED where No 1 spark plug lead is on the cap and in YELLOW where the lead for No 3 is.
7/. I've attached a picture of the cap in place with the old leads on it. I've used the same colours as the leads for my marking on the distributor.

To my mind, at TDC, the rotor button is well past the No 1 position and is just about right for No 3 (based on the current wiring of the cap).

To the best of my knowledge, the wiring on the cap looks the same as other Minis with No 1 being at about the 2 o'clock position.

What am I doing wrong?

I've read on other forums where you simply wire up the cap to suit the position of the rotor button. I'm reluctant to pull the spindle out as I've read that it can drop into the gearbox and that's the last thing I want! Do I simply re-wire the cap by moving all the leads 1 position anti-clockwise?

Is it possible that the spindle was in a different position before the rebuild and is now in the right spot?

Cheers, Rocky

Here's the pic of the spindle at TDC. File size was too big so re-sized.

You’ve got 2 TDC events during the engine cycle, once on the intake and exhaust strokes. You need to make sure you’re at the TDC after the intake valve opens (compression stroke). It should start within a fair timing range, you can also try slowly sweeping the distributor while cranking over to see if you find a sweet spot

The distributor drive in the block is threaded, so you can wind in a long bolt and then it won’t fall into the engine. It is possible it’s out by a tooth, but you can always just rotate the distributor anticlockwise so that the rotor lines up with the #1 post on the cap.

The distributor drive has a small and large side, the larger side should be facing up at TDC

Mine has the distributor turned so the vacuum advance port is about vertical, which would be pretty close to what yours needs

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Thanks timmy. I did check that No 1 is on compression stroke and I agree that it looks like the spindle may be out by 1 tooth. Needs to be a bit more clockwise perhaps.

I've found the vacuum advance part fouls a bit if I turn the distributor too far anti clockwise.

What's the horror stories I've read about the spindle (or a part of it) falling out on removal? Is it simply a case of screwing a long bolt into the centre of the spindle, then pulling the spindle out and re-insert it 1 tooth clockwise?

Thanks Rocky

Hi Rocky, not sure if his instructions were a little off ..or maybe you mis-heard what he may have mis-said

Start with the engine at TCD ...on the compression stroke. Make sure No 1 inlet and exhaust rockers are loose... or use your thumb the check for compression. The pointer in the flywheel case will point to the TCD mark on the flywheel twice per engine cycle; you need to make sure its at TDC on the compression stroke....

It looks like the dizzie drive (in your photo) is correctly aligned so the rotor arm should be pointing to “one o’clock” (or maybe two) ..but not at No 1 plug. But then it doesn’t really matter where its pointing ..... Which ever plug lead its pointing to IS the No 1 lead.... (where the rotor arm is pointing and hence which is No 1 is determined by the orientation of the dizzie drive). IMHO they only specify a particular direction because it makes for the neatest plug lead layout....

Twist the dizzie so that the points are just at the point of opening.... make sure you’re twisting the right direction and ensure the points lifter is on the opening side of the dizzie cam (not the closing side).

I can never remember which way the arm rotates (I think its anticlockwise).... but, to be sure, stick the car in gear and pull the car towards you a few inches. You will see the rotor arm rotate .. and the points will open.

Push the car back so we’re at TDC with the points juuuust about to open.

Attach the other plug leads in their correct position.... count off anti-clockwise from No 1 in the correct firing order (1,3,4,2).

Whack the dizzie cap back on you should be set to go....

BTW did you switch to negative earth during the rebuild? If you did, you will need to switch the coil wires as your workshop manual will probably tell you to fit them to suit +earth (which your 850 would originally have been)

Cheers, Ian

PS.. Timmy was typing at the same time as I so I didn’t see his response. I would not fiddle with the timing (turning the dizzie while cranking). It should start set at TDC but once the engine is running you can slowly twist the dizzie one way and then the other (only a few degrees). If you start twisting the wrong way the engine will falter (revs drop) so turn it the other way. Revs should increase and then begins to fall as you go past the sweet spot. Twist it back to where revs are at a max. Your timing is now correct.... (at idle).... You will need a special machine and/or a dyno to make sure the advance curve is correct across the rev range. Ian

The teeth on the drive are pretty large, so there is only a coarse adjustment there. It might be worth just waiting until you’ve got it ready to fire and then adjusting it with a timing light. I think mine might also be put by a tooth, but once setting the timing with the light it all works fine

Dissy goes anticlockwise

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Thanks very much Ian and Timmy - I'll go and have another play and check TDC on right stroke.

I'm a little way off starting it as the body is still at the panel shop. Just getting everything ready.

The car was already -ve earth when I got it so all good there.

As a side issue, I'm thinking of changing to electronic ignition later on but thought I'd be better off getting it up and running initially with points as I think they'll be easier to get right at first. I've already got a new cap and leads to go on and thought I'd use the old stuff until I get it sorted.

Also thought I'd take it to someone to get tuned up correctly once I get it fired up. It used to have twin 1 1/4 SU but there were not a matched pair so I've gone with a single 1 1/2. Plan is to trailer it rather than drive it as the reco motor cost a bit and don't want to bugger anything up in the process.

Rocky

Hi rocky and bullwinkle,. If you are plannning to trailer it, could i suggest trailer it to your friendly neighbourhood engine builder..the one that did the rebuild. They as well as you will want a good start in life for the newly built engine and make sure things look as they should before firing up - eg oil pressure up, good going on the build

I'm one of the dumbos who let the dizzy drive spindle drop into the gearbox as one of the last steps after an engine rebuild. Stripping everything to separate engine and gearbox and rebuilding with new gaskets was a real pain. But I've only done it once.

It's not complicated if you are careful. Wind a long bolt into the spindle centre hole (I think the coarse thread end of a head stud fits) and insert the spindle. It will rotate as it meshes with the camshaft gear. To ensure it is fully meshed install the distributor drive housing and secure it in place before removing the bolt. The drive housing can't be secured if the spindle isn't all the way home.

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ex-NSW Police 1970 MK II Cooper S
VMCI #43

or crank the engine over on the garage floor with plugs out to see if oil pressure comes up normally...

Then you can try starting it

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"Show me the Mini!"

Hi FNQ and 9YaTaH,

The bloke who rebuilt it is over in SA and I'm in Western Vic - doable to trailer it over there but he's given me a long list of stuff to do once I've got the motor back in the car.

Main bits he's told me are to prime the oil pump by taking off the pipe between the filter and block and pour oil down there as well as fill the oil filter up (I've gone with a spin on type).
Use water for the first 1000km or so and then drain and use coolant.
Change oil after 1000km. I'm going to use the Penrite Mini oil 20W50.
Tighten head bolts and check tappets after 1000km
I've fitted a thermo housing with provision for temp sender and I'll be hooking up a gauge.

I was thinking of cranking the engine over without the plugs until oil pressure light goes off and I can see oil up in the tappet area.

Should I also fit an oil pressure gauge?

After I get it fired and running "ok", that's when I thought I can take it to someone a bit closer to home - maybe Ballarat, Bendigo or Geelong. If not there, then into Melbourne somewhere I guess.

Hey winnabey - as for the distributor, I've been playing around with it and think I can get enough adjustment on it and still clear the oil pressure sender and fit the vacuum advance pipe without repositioning the spindle. Time will tell!

Thanks for all your tips and help.

Rocky

Should I also fit an oil pressure gauge? YES...run it till the pressure comes up then shut it down...

Fit plugs, start it again, maybe a quick fiddle with the timing till it smooths out, then shut it down...

Then fit it in the car for further refinement...

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"Show me the Mini!"

5/16 unf is the thread in the distributor drive. Use one of the long bolts out of the lh engine mount bracket.

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