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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:30 am 
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striped 63 wrote:
From another thread....

Archangel007 wrote:
The batteries (there will be two) are Odyssey brand fully sealed gel cells and they will go in the bins next to the rear seats with lids on them.

One battery will just be for starting the engine, the other will be for powering the accesories etc, and they will be bridged when the engine is running by a solenoid so they both get charged.

Once the engine is off, they are isolated so the engine start battery will never get drained.

Regards,
Tricky


that sounds like overkill - my idea is better

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:33 am 
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thats one smart dude


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:20 pm 
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Hi Forumites,

Please accept my apologies for not updating this thread.

I have been very busy with work, family and everything else life puts in your way.

I promise to update in the next few days.

Cheers,
Tricky

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:21 pm 
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Andy, it isn't a race man, take your time and when you have something to put up put it up, but don't stress, just remember to take photos and then do a write up when you can... Gotta dyno day coming up down here on the 18th with Dyno Dynamics dyno so I should have a sheet this Saturday..! I have reduced boost to 13psi due to the leaning out above 5500 should be interesting...

Cheers

Matt

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225hp atw on 14psi. 1/4 Mile no idea. Take one 1971 Mini Clubman, one Starlet GT Halfcut, Simmer over a warm MIG Welder, and Voila Minstar! www.mpdesign.id.au
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:35 pm 
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Hi Matt,

Thanks for the advice - need an objective assessement every now and then!!

Good to hear about the dyno day coming up.

Are you going to tune as well?

I really would love to see the same run at 15psi....

Cheers,
Tricky

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:50 am 
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updates?
i have been checking everyday but alas no updates. it is almost like you have a life outside of posting on ausmini and building the cat. :) :)
loved reading so far, keep up the good work.

DAVID


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:18 am 
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He'll get another up shortly. He's been very busy buying more minis and building my car at the moment. I think he has also had a list of Honey Do's a mile long.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:44 pm 
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CHAPTER 12.....The Mini Steering

Hi Guys,

Well it's time for an update. I have been very busy lately doing other stuff besides The Cat. I have spent a couple of hours working on JC's Mini 'Hefty' and Tony's Mini 'Barbie'. I have also gone out and bought another mini, this makes three now and none of them a runner!!

It was by word of mouth that I came across a Mini sitting at the back of a factory - abandoned. The previous owner had spent some bucks on it getting it deseamed and spraying it. When I first saw it, it was in pieces at the back of the factory with crap all over it. This is how I found it......
Image

But on closer inspection, I realised that some money had been spent on it. Like the new 13 x 7 Superlites with brand new Sime tyres:
Image

It also had been professionally deseamed, front and rear:
Image
Image

It also came with, get this, 6 x random orbital sanders (5 electric, one air-powered), 1 x gravity fed spray gun, one putty gun, a small compressor, a 4" angle grinder, a battery drill, small vacuum cleaner and other bits and pieces:
Image
Image

Also, it was to my amazement that the motor was an A+ motor, and it seems it has been fully rebuilt.....
Image

Well I made the guy in possession an offer - and blow me down he took it, as long as I could remove it by the weekend (thanks a bunch to JC (who just had a baby) and to Tony for their help here!!). I said 'hell yes' , as I only paid $200 for the whole kit and caboodle!!

Good things come to those who wait, and I am glad I waited!!

Okay, I guess you are all wondering what am I going to do with this shell..........
This Morris is earmarked for the mid-mount, RWD 3SGTE conversion that I have always wanted to do. Its name will be..................MiniR2 (because the engine will be out of an MR2, but you knew that!)

Okay, enough of that.

I would like to digress here for a moment and look at another area of fabrication of the Mini, and come back to the boot later. The reason for this is lately I have had a bit of feedback regarding this area and some folks out in Conversion Mini Land would like to get some information - I am talking about installing the Starlet steering column into the Mini.

As with any project where you take a part of one car and make it fit into another, it is not undertaken lightly, and the steering is no exception. After all, the steering is your major link with the road. It took me a good 2 weekends to get this right - but it was definately worth the effort.

I was not even going to worry about installing the Starlet steering column into the Mini, I thought it was too much hard work, for too little effort - the Law of Diminishing Returns if you like (I had even bought a lowering bracket for the Mini column I was so convinced). But JC nagged me like a bitch that he wanted the Starlet column in 'Hefty', so I reluctantly agreed to have a serious look at how to do this. I decided to experiment on 'The Cat' first, and have all the mistakes, processes and procedures down pat before tackling 'Hefty'.

Lets take a look at what we have originally. The mini column comes up out of the floor at an oblique angle because it is a one-piece shaft. It has to dodge around the pedals and pedal box and then arrive at the driver. It is not central to the driver position, but as you all know, offset to the passenger side. The wheel is inlined at about 35 degrees in the vertical, and about 7 degrees in the horizontal - hardly conducive to a good driving position. Also, there are no switchgear within easy reach (save the indicators) like with ergonimically designed Japanese cars, whereby the indicators, wipers, high beam, pass, lights etc are all located on stalks located either side of the steering wheel.

This was a good a reason as any for putting in the Starlet column (and this was JC's prime mover). For me however, the prime mover was to have an efficient and ergonomically satisfying driving position, that integrated the steering wheel, controls, gear changer and pedals into one sweet package.

I started with the problem of the length of the Starlet shaft, it was about 100mm too long for our needs, even with the splined sliding shaft all the way in. So, first step is to dissasemble the entire shaft. This is done quite easily by removing the circlip at the front of the shaft, at the steering wheel end of the outer tube collar. Next, mark where the outer tube comes to on the inner shaft at the bottom end of the tube, this is where we will cut the shaft and shorten it. Then gently tap the inner shaft while holding the outer tube with a rubber mallet - its should just slide out of the bottom of the outer tube (hold onto the inner shaft as well as it can pop out suddenly). Next, cut the top uni joint off at at the point it is welded to the shaft. Next, cut the shaft at the mark, plus say 10-15mm (towards where the uni join was), on the column. Join uni joint to newly cut-down shaft. It is imperative that your cuts are perfectly square here and that you weld on the uni joint with good, penetrating welds, without too much heat. Reasemble the shaft.

Do not cut and weld the shaft with out dissasembling it first - there are nylon bearings on the outer tube that the inner shaft rotates on, and the shear pins (its a collapsible shaft) are nylon as well - you will melt or severely damamge these if you welded the inner shaft while it is assembled with the outer tube!!

The second problem was how to graft on the Starlet steering knucle joint onto the Mini steering rack spline. There was about 5mm difference in diameters between the two. Upon closer inspection, I found that the Staret knuckle, was a folded piece of metal bent over to form a U-shape on either side. I proceeded to cut off one half of the U on either side with the fine blade angle grinder. Once this was done, I then made some cuts aling the length of the knuckle to allow the two sides of the knuckle to now squeeze together to close up the diameter. It worked a treat!!! The knuckle now clamps on the mini spline like it was made for it. I then welded up where I have cut the knuckle.

In this photo you can see where I have sliced off the bent over wing on the bottom knuckle. Compare it to the knuckle above (where the splined shaft comes into it - see the difference!)
Image

The next job, was to align the column with the exact centre of the drivers position, so it was in the exact centre of the driving position and not necessarily the drivers space. This was no easy feat. I was now constricted by the following:
a) The angle of the knuckle joints could only articulate so far before binding
b) The height of the steering column
c) The interference with the pedals and pedal box
d) The interference with the drivers knees when seated
e) The angle of the steering wheel
f) the method of attachment
g) the interference with the lower dash bar.

Thats a lot of stuff to compromise. I started by finding out what was the exact centre of the drivers position. Was it the exact centre of the footwell?? In fact they were farily close. My measuremenst showed the centre of the drivers position was actually slightly to the outside of the footwell centre line. With this establised, I transferred the drivers centre line up to the dash bar using a spirit level. I then lenghtened that line until it was running along the footwell and on the underside of the dash.

This gave me the centreline that I needed to align the column. If the column for its entire length was plumb with this line, then it would be central to the drivers position. I then clamped the column in place for a test fit. The position felt natural, and well centred.
Image
Image

Now, the Starlet column mounts in two positions. Because it has the option of tilting for height, it pivots on the lower mount and slides on the upper mount. We wanted to retain this feature, just for that extra bit of adjustability. A bracket had to be made up for the lower mounting position. This is what the bracket eventually looked like (tacked together ready for welding). It is made out of 3mm plate.
Image

And this is it in position. It is mounted using 2 x 10mm dome head allen bolts (I love them!) with nyloc nuts on the shelf panel, and 2 x nylocs on the column. The second photo shows the finished product after some trimming of the column mount.
Image
Image
In the above picture, you can see where the uni joint had been welded back onto the cut down shaft, immediately after the end of the outer tube.

Ok, bottom bracket in place. Now for the top bracket. Because of the position of lower dash bar, a somewhat elaborate mounting bracket had to be devised. This would consist of a flat plate for the column to bolt to (making this ws a PITA, as it had to follow the contours of the column mounting plate!), them some vertical 'buttresses' that would add lateral stability to the bracket. This is what I came up with, and works just great.
Image
Image

Perfect, except for one thing. Because the column was so solidly mounted at the front, and not so solidly mounted at the rear (after all, its only mounted to 1.2mm sheet steel), it would pivot slightly around the axis of the front mount, not badly, but enough to be annoying. To remedy this, I welded in a short piece of plate that attached from the shelf to the firewall - 'move now you bastard!!!' It cant! And the column is as solidly mounted as the original Mini one would have been. Here is a photo of the transverse brace.
Image

So that was job well done. The top mount will be covered by extending the steering column upper and lower cowling further back down the shaft to hide it. The lower mount will be just painted black, besides you would have to have your head near to the footwell floor to see it anyway. Now, the only drawback to mounting the Starlet column like this is: the lower steering knuckle fouls the brake pedal. This is easily overcome by putting a slight bend ( a set) in the peddle. Its not much, but if you can do it in a press it would be that much easier. I am yet to do mine, but I will post some pics of how much to bend it, and compare it with a standard unbent brake pedal lever.

Now you have a nice central column, with about 25 degrees tilt instead of 35 degrees, with zero horizontal deviation, and with all the switchgear at your fingertips and adjustable for height as well.

One last photo I want to leave you with.
Image
When we were setting up the drivers position, we had three independant people (myself, JC and Tony) judge what was the best position for the steering wheel, seat and shift lever. The only deviation from the three test pliots was the seat reach position (backwards or forwards). If you take a look at the following photo, you will see I have mounted the gearshift lever right back, so the last two mounting holes are actually on the cross tunnel. To do this I had to cut off the handbrake lever mount and weld it back on 50mm further back. But the result, is that you have a perfect seating position, that is: arms bent at 80-90 degrees, knees bent at 10-15 degrees, and the gearshift lever and handbrake fall perfectly to hand.

Next chapter - we give the boot, the boot (Pt II)!

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Last edited by Archangel007 on Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:03 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:40 am 
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Nice work!

Just a question. Have you got any issues with the large angle the uni joints are at? Universal joints are not constant velocity and, as you rotate them, their output is not constant. That is, the torque you feel at the wheel may not be constant but rise and fall as each uni passes through certain rotation positions.

I have seen other cars, with centrally mounted rack to column joins (eg Ultima) and large steering column universal joint angles. If the front wheels were placed on rotating pads like a wheel aligners, and the steering wheel turned, the steering effort would not be constant with angle. Similarly the road feedback isn't constant. This gives the driver little confidence.

I'd say it would be worth positioning the front hubs in the on-road position and testing the wheel effort lock to lock. You may find you've got the unis at an angle where there is no perceptable torque fluctuation, but the opposite could be true.

M


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:27 pm 
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Hi Mokesta,

Yes, good point. I havent driven an Ultima, but I know what you mean.

There were issues with the large amount of angle that the uni joints had to accomodate, that was one of the compromises that had to be incorporated into actually where the shaft was to be mounted.

When I was sorting out the exact placement for the column, one of the prime directives was that there was to be no binding of the uni joints throughout their entire range of rotational movement. (at all)!!

I tested the effort that is required to turn the wheels whilst the knuckles was joined to the mini rack. The maximum range of articulation was measured until they just started to bind, then I backed it off about 5 degrees for each joint. I can honestly say that the amount of force required to rotate the column through its full rotational moment is linear.

The sliding splined shaft of the Starlet column helps here, as you can slacken or tighten the uni angles simply by pushing the entire column in or out. The further in towards the firewall it goes, the more it binds, and the opposite is true.

It would argue that it should be no different on the road, under normal and abnormal loads.

Cheers,
Tricky

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:17 am 
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as always Andy - outstanding!!

anyone else notice that this is a pre '67 roundnose shell with a clubman front... ?

note the tail lights, note the door handles, the door catches, and finally, the clincher, check out the position of the wiper arm holes, they park on the right hand side ;)

I hope this'll return to it's rightful state Andy :D

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:20 am 
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skssgn wrote:
anyone else notice that this is a pre '67 roundnose shell with a clubman front... ?


Eh? Its a Morris.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:20 pm 
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The steering column is one area that people undersestimate the work & time involved ingetting it to work properly (I know I certainly did).

Nice work, and it's always good to go a little overboard with the mounts - sometimes you don't realise just how hard you are pulling on that wheel.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:24 pm 
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Now thats engineering, i'm sure it took sometime to nut out and get it to work the way it should. I'll be interested to see how it feel when its on the road both ergonomicaly and actual loads.

What size steering wheel are you going to use?

Dan


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:12 pm 
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Simon,

Its a '63 Morris. Does it look like a clubman front in the photo?
And thanks for your kind words Ol' son!!

awdmoke - I underestimated it too. Just the setting out and getting the angles right took me one weekend alone. I must say though, that the fabrication was the easy part. When we did JC's, we just transferred measurements, and had it knocked over in one day.

Dan - we can swap cars and road test each others rides - thats way we should be able to give some good feedback/constructive criticism to each other. The steering wheel is a Momo with the standard 300mm diamter.

Cheers,
Tricky

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