ausmini :: View topic - gas vs gasless welding

use gas
arogon light from BOC is good

gives a neater weld and reduces splatter

How thick was the stuff you used on your frame Dan?

My technical advisory committee (archangle007) used the stick on mine and he welded 2.8mm wall tube to 6mm plate. BTW - my subframe is nearing completion.

Not long at all.....

Many of the el cheapo ones are just toys. Maybe OK for occasional use, but little capacity for hard work. I'd avoid the gasless only ones, they restrict what you can do. I've found gas (argon + CO2) and solid wire do a better job, particularly if there's any rust. it's a Mini? Right..... Laughing
If you can afford a good one, get the Lincoln 170A, or the WIA 150S. Both are excellent machines, but cost $1000 up. Wink
Of the cheapies I'd go for the Cigweld one.

Another thing to take into account is price of consumables. You can get a 15KG roll of solid wire for $30 - $40. A 5kg roll of gassless wire will be in the order of $90.

Gasless MIG is, as far as I can tell, a waste of time unless you can't get gas.

Buy a gas MIG and don't muck around with anything less.

I use MIG at work day in and day out. You do tend to get what you pay for with these things. Those cheapies work, just.. but have rudimentary control of voltage- not enough steps. (stepless is the best but costs way more do$h).
If you are serious about MIG welding and want something that lasts, save yer money up and then spend $1000 or so on a Lincoln, WIA, Miller or other big name brand. In 5 or 10 years, you will be able to get parts for it.

Ina, I used gasless on mine, and yeah it spatters. About the only advantage of gasless is that it runs a little hotter in the weld and thus gives slightly better penetration (which is good on thicker stuff which really doesn't help you :lol:

). Gas has many advantages over gasless (neater weld etc etc). The thing is the SIP etc little MIG's (below 170 roughly) are useless for gas with the disposable cannisters, low flow, gas empties very quickly etc. My suggestion to you is to buy a semi pro rig that takes the big spools, and takes a full sized bottle and comes with a decent regulator. I am v happy with the welding on my subframe but I have basically knackered my welder with use over 20 months. Your call.

Cheers

Matt

Author:	inazuma_x [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:52 am ]
Post subject:	gas vs gasless welding
this may not belong in the conversions section...but it would be lost in the flood of new topics and comments in the mini chat forum... what are ppls impressions of gas vs gasless MIG welding? i have decided i should invest in a mig welder (i have a stick welder but really dont wanna have to put up with the hassle of frigging around with it...especially since i am gonna be welding fairly thin stuff; 3-4mm, stick would probably work but as i said...i cant be stuffed)...the transmig 130 (rrp $699 which i can get for $600 even with my bunnings discount) seems to be the go as it does both gas and gasless...i have no experience with either and will be teaching myself how to MIG weld...i have heard/read that gasless leaves the same sorta residue or slag as stick welding which can be a pain in the arse...but other than this does gas have any other advantages over gasless? advice appreciated...

Author:	marcsvenson [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:15 am ]
Post subject:
use gas arogon light from BOC is good gives a neater weld and reduces splatter

Author:	inazuma_x [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:20 am ]
Post subject:
marcsvenson wrote: use gas arogon light from BOC is good gives a neater weld and reduces splatter so...why would people bother with gasless? other than not needing gas it appears that anything gained from this is more than lost with the disadvantages... about the only advantage i can see is that the machine itself costs less (about $200 less)

Author:	marcsvenson [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:27 am ]
Post subject:
yep price and some people weld outside in the wind and i think its hard to use in windy situations and in situations where a gas tank isnt available

Author:	minimetoy [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:
I have the transmig 135 (i think) with gas. I started using it without gas and yes i could weld but it splattered everywhere and took a lot more time to tidy up with a grinder etc. I then got gas and have found my welding is 10 times better than without gas and much less splatter. I would say go with the gas. Dan

ausmini https://www.ausmini.com/forums/

gas vs gasless welding https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=16925	Page 1 of 2

Author:	JC [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:
How thick was the stuff you used on your frame Dan? My technical advisory committee (archangle007) used the stick on mine and he welded 2.8mm wall tube to 6mm plate. BTW - my subframe is nearing completion.

Author:	inazuma_x [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:
striped 63 wrote: How thick was the stuff you used on your frame Dan? My technical advisory committee (archangle007) used the stick on mine and he welded 2.8mm wall tube to 6mm plate. BTW - my subframe is nearing completion. 2.8mm is hard to stick weld in my experience...6mm is no problem though... how long till the subframe's done?

Author:	JC [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Not long at all.....

Author:	inazuma_x [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:
striped 63 wrote: Not long at all..... hahaha...its so hard to get a straight answer outta you man lol

Author:	Zizzle [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:
Use the search. http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16378 http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16658

Author:	inazuma_x [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:41 pm ]
Post subject:
Zizzle wrote: Use the search. http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16378 http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16658 neither of those really answer my question...they discuss similar themes but dont tell me what the advantages of gas vs gasless are...which is what this was about...i already know that MIG is the choice for thin stuff...i've blasted enuff holes in thin sheet metal and body work trying to weld it with stick to know that crap aint gonna work... i did a web search on gas vs gasless and as i said it seemed pretty one-sided and i just wanted your opinion on this topic...seems the concensus is the same thanks for confirming my suspicions

Author:	Zizzle [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:
Well I thought these bits were rather relevant: DrMini wrote: Many of the el cheapo ones are just toys. Maybe OK for occasional use, but little capacity for hard work. I'd avoid the gasless only ones, they restrict what you can do. I've found gas (argon + CO2) and solid wire do a better job, particularly if there's any rust. it's a Mini? Right..... Laughing If you can afford a good one, get the Lincoln 170A, or the WIA 150S. Both are excellent machines, but cost $1000 up. Wink Of the cheapies I'd go for the Cigweld one. Metalfab_101 wrote: Another thing to take into account is price of consumables. You can get a 15KG roll of solid wire for $30 - $40. A 5kg roll of gassless wire will be in the order of $90. Angusdog wrote: Gasless MIG is, as far as I can tell, a waste of time unless you can't get gas. Chris wrote: Buy a gas MIG and don't muck around with anything less. But I think this sums it up best: Quote: I use MIG at work day in and day out. You do tend to get what you pay for with these things. Those cheapies work, just.. but have rudimentary control of voltage- not enough steps. (stepless is the best but costs way more do$h). If you are serious about MIG welding and want something that lasts, save yer money up and then spend $1000 or so on a Lincoln, WIA, Miller or other big name brand. In 5 or 10 years, you will be able to get parts for it.

Author:	inazuma_x [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:
ok...less direct...but ok... how about cigweld transmig 130? its a $700 welder retail...is it no good?

Author:	minstar [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:
Ina, I used gasless on mine, and yeah it spatters. About the only advantage of gasless is that it runs a little hotter in the weld and thus gives slightly better penetration (which is good on thicker stuff which really doesn't help you ). Gas has many advantages over gasless (neater weld etc etc). The thing is the SIP etc little MIG's (below 170 roughly) are useless for gas with the disposable cannisters, low flow, gas empties very quickly etc. My suggestion to you is to buy a semi pro rig that takes the big spools, and takes a full sized bottle and comes with a decent regulator. I am v happy with the welding on my subframe but I have basically knackered my welder with use over 20 months. Your call. Cheers Matt

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Author:	inazuma_x [ Tue Mar 07, 2006 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:
minstar wrote: Ina, I used gasless on mine, and yeah it spatters. About the only advantage of gasless is that it runs a little hotter in the weld and thus gives slightly better penetration (which is good on thicker stuff which really doesn't help you ). Gas has many advantages over gasless (neater weld etc etc). The thing is the SIP etc little MIG's (below 170 roughly) are useless for gas with the disposable cannisters, low flow, gas empties very quickly etc. My suggestion to you is to buy a semi pro rig that takes the big spools, and takes a full sized bottle and comes with a decent regulator. I am v happy with the welding on my subframe but I have basically knackered my welder with use over 20 months. Your call. Cheers Matt i am not one to compromise on ANYTHING...if it sets me back another month coz i need to scrimp and save some more...i dont care...i have always believed that quality is worth paying for...suggest to me a brand and model that you would recommend (not too expensive but within reason)...