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| Bike engine conversion https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=54874 |
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| Author: | craig goss [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bike engine conversion |
Hey guys, Just wondering anyone know of any road regulations that would prevent a motorbike engine like the yamaha R1 engine being built into a mini? They do it in the UK, so i thought i might ask and find out. Its just seems to be cheap for a engine and it looks rather different. Cheers Regards Craig |
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| Author: | sgc [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:44 pm ] |
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I think it boils down to this: No reverse gear, so it's not allowed... |
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| Author: | slinkey inc [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:45 pm ] |
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Give Stuart Croser a call or email. He's an engineer at Tonking Consulting who usually deals with these matters. 82733100 [email protected] Or give Regency a buzz, but you know I wouldn't.... 
Goodluck Craig, I don't see why you couldn't, probably more work than a FWD conversion but hey, nothing thats good is easy! |
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| Author: | bnicho [ Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:42 pm ] |
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As I understand it, the problem is emissions. Bikes don't have to comply with the same emsssions laws cars do. As soon as you put a bike engine into a car, it has to comply with the car emissions standards for the year of bike the engine was sourced from. Very expensive to do. Regards, |
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| Author: | Mini Mad [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
anything can be done but i would would remove all reservations of "cheap" In all conversions the engine is the cheapest part about it.. |
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| Author: | toymini76 [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:22 pm ] |
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I agree with that statement 100% It all sounds cheap until you get half way through and start adding up what you've spent so far...... 
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| Author: | pubudug [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I have researched into this a bit already. I am planning on starting this pending the go ahead from the engineer. Quote: I think it boils down to this: No reverse gear, so it's not allowed... We will have to go with a QUAIFE or equivalent reversing diff if you are going chain drive.. so that problem is sorted. Quote: Give Stuart Croser a call or email. He's an engineer at Tonking Consulting who usually deals with these matters. 82733100 [email protected] Or give Regency a buzz, but you know I wouldn't.... Laughing Stuart is already working on it for me He said he will research into the reverse issue and also the emissions issue and get back to me. While I was at Regency registering my first mini, I asked the Regency guys about my plan and they said it definitely has to have a mechanical reverse gear but there is no reason why I cannot do it. Quote: anything can be done but i would would remove all reservations of "cheap"
In all conversions the engine is the cheapest part about it.. I agree with this too. This conversion will most definitely be more expensive than the 4EFTE conversion!.. so start saving the $$$. I have been keeping a note of hayabusa engines/ written off bikes through all the auction sites.. the engine itself will set you back a pretty penny 
JC: you mentioned you are keen to give this a go too. I'm interested to hear what your plans/route for this project. I'll PM you soon.. In my mind.. this whole bike engine thing is still new.. I'm not sure how driver friendly this car will be with little low down torque...(correct me if I'm wrong). I dont want to be revving a crap out around town to get about just in case the engineer comes out with a thumbs down.. its going to be a SR20DET! bags and bags of torque 
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| Author: | JC [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
If you're in Western Sydney (Parramatta) you can get the omission test done for free (apparently). I reckon the "cheapest" way to do it would be to mount the motor in the engine bay and get yourself a Nissan GTiR (or similar) complete rear end and tailshaft. Its a complete unit with diff, drishafts, hubs and brakes (including handbrake). IIRC correctly we sat the one I had under a mini and it fits well enough. The complete rear end would mount in very much the same way as the mini rear subframe mounts. Buy and mount motor, get tail shaft modified and mounting the rear end could be done for $5k. There would be another $5k in getting it to run if you don't already have the gear. |
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| Author: | david rosenthal [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:09 am ] |
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Craig, that honda F4 head I showed you has all the pollution set-up on it to comply with current regs. ie exhaust gas partial re-burn, crank-case vent etc etc. Some bike manufacturers have pollution set-ups that are a lot more efficient than the requirements here in Aust. Some countries have much stricter laws than here. The biggest difference between a bike eng and a mini eng is the flywheel. A bike has no large flywheel mass to assist the momentum of the eng to give it accelerating torque, so they have to rev higher to develop the same momentum. This is translated into the ability of the eng maintaining a increase of momemtum to get the mass of the car moving. The momentum can also be derived from gearing or combinations of various bore, stroke,and flywheel mass. The only thing that will vary will be the rate of increase of the eng rpm. If you could graft the bike bottom with a flywheel attached to a mini box[for mech reverse] then that would be a good starting point. or build a V8 version like the pic Matt posted 
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| Author: | squidage [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
both the Canems Spyder and the Honda Goldwing had reverse gears as standard. Don't know if this helps. The Honda is shaft drive as well (RWD FTW), and produces bags of torque - but good luck fitting a 2.1 litre boxer six into a mini. It would be killer thou! |
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| Author: | squidage [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
bnicho wrote: As I understand it, the problem is emissions. Bikes don't have to comply with the same emsssions laws cars do.
Most bikes have to comply to Euro III standards if that means anything? |
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| Author: | craig goss [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Cheers guys, I know in the Uk that they use a starter motor of a flywhee connected to the diff as the reverse gear. I know with clubman or westfield kits in the Uk they have mechanical reverse gearing. Maybe this could be a race project, but sounds blooody expensive for the road. David it would definately be worth a look- and i understand that the flywheel, clutch, and back plate cause most of the problems, I was just looking at options- as it already has the forged pistons, and produces high revs with 140+ hp- reliably. There was a 2006 yamaha engine on ebay last week for $1500, with all the wiring. Cheers all |
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| Author: | TheMiniMan [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
here`s my prototype , Yamy R1 front wheel drive contemplating the quaife limited slip diff with reverse gear box, but it`s about $6000 (OUCH!!!) 
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| Author: | Archangel007 [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
bnicho wrote: As I understand it, the problem is emissions. Bikes don't have to comply with the same emsssions laws cars do. As soon as you put a bike engine into a car, it has to comply with the car emissions standards for the year of bike the engine was sourced from. Very expensive to do. Regards, Why is this myth still being perpetuated? Bikes have to comply with all relevant emissions laws. In Australia ADR 79/02 (Euro 4) was implemented for new model light petrol, LPG and NG vehicles from July 2008 and from July 2010 for all light vehicles. Bikes are classed under the ADR's as light vehicles. Want proof, try going out and buying a 2-stroke motorcycle - they dont comply, so they arent sold. Australia will now implement the next wave of emissions standards by adopting Euro3/4 sometime after 2010 while Europe and California adopt Euro7/8 about the same time. Further, all motorcycles have to undergo the 'World-wide motorcycle emissions test cycle' and pass as part of the complinacing procedures for the European and Californian market. This means that 99% of bike manufacturers will ensure their bikes comply as these two markets are the biggest in the world. Quote: If you could graft the bike bottom with a flywheel attached to a mini box[for mech reverse] then that would be a good starting point. or build a V8 version like the pic Matt posted David, sorry but why would you bother? One of the big plus' of doing a motorcycle conversion is so you can use the motorcycle gearbox. Give me a six-speed, sequential constant mesh gearbox over a 4-speed h-pattern syncro anyday. Especially if the gearbox is off an A-series with all the extra weight from the counter gears. Quote: contemplating the quaife limited slip diff with reverse gear box, but it`s about $6000 (OUCH!!!)
Matt, I told you we are going to use the diff assembly from Taylor Race Engineering - half the price of the Quaife and just as good. See here: http://www.tpe-inc.com/prod01.htm End of rant, Tricky |
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| Author: | Mokesta [ Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Archangel007 wrote: Why is this myth still being perpetuated? Bikes have to comply with all relevant emissions laws. In Australia ADR 79/02 (Euro 4) was implemented for new model light petrol, LPG and NG vehicles from July 2008 and from July 2010 for all light vehicles. Bikes are classed under the ADR's as light vehicles. Want proof, try going out and buying a 2-stroke motorcycle - they dont comply, so they arent sold.
End of rant, Tricky Because..... The ADR applicability table Here: has no "X" for category LC vehicles in the ADR79 to ADR80 rows... http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/ ... y_2008.pdf There in lies your proof. M |
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