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Deseaming in NSW https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=78592 |
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Author: | mini3101 [ Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | Deseaming in NSW |
Hi all Just wondering if anyone can tell me, if you deseam your mini, does the work need to be engineered in NSW before registration? Putting aside the workmanship etc... And assuming it is done by a professional, do we need to have it certified or is it regarded similar to (say) rust repair? I am curious as I am thinking about it. Thank you for the advice Cheers |
Author: | drmini in aust [ Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I'm just amazed so many people have looked at your post and have nothing to add...... ![]() I once owned a deseamed Deluxe project in the `80s but it never got the body finished, painted and registered. Only because it was too rusty when I rescued it from under a tree, so I parted it out. This was before the current laws regarding the need to engineer stuff. Register a deseamed Mini back then, no problem Sir. Now, I dunno. But there are still quite a few older deseamed Minis running about on the road. Sorry I can't really help. But somebody here must know what the current rules are re deseaming.... |
Author: | mini3101 [ Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Engineered deseamed mini |
Hi drmini Thank you for the feedback, your response is much appreciated. Yeah, not sure... There must be someone that has deseamed a mini and registered it in NSW.... I'd just like to know if there was any special requirements ![]() Thank you again ![]() |
Author: | d1ck0 [ Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
This is a can of worms. As you are affecting the structural integrity of the car I would suggest it would need to be engineered. Yes there are some around registered. Some have been done well, some haven't. Some have rusted very badly there is a post on here, though I can't remember who's it was, who had their deseamed shell blasted and found lots of holes. If not done properly they can open up like a sardine tin too. Your best bet would be to talk to an RTA (RMS) approved engineer ad see what they say. Cheers, Dicko. |
Author: | mickmini [ Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
RTA wrote: Do I need an engineering signatory for minor modifications? Vehicle modifications fall into three distinct categories:
‘Engineering signatory certified’ modified production vehicles. ‘Engineering signatory certified’ individually constructed vehicles. Owner certified minor modifications are generally those modifications which were optional equipment for the vehicle concerned. Owner certified modifications also include some non-standard modifications of a minor nature which do not affect the level of safety, strength or reliability of vital systems such as brakes and steering. These modifications have little or no impact upon the vehicle’s level of compliance with the Australian Design Rules. Examples of minor (owner certified) modifications are:
The fitting of a proprietary sunroof (if the modifications are of a minor nature only). Fitting a ‘package’ available as optional equipment for the vehicle (eg front disc brakes, power steering, alternative transmission and bucket or bench seats). Additional lighting eg fog & driving lights. Alternative wheels and tyres within the owner certified limits set by the Authority (see Vehicle Standards Information Sheet No. 9 Guidelines for alternative wheels & tyres). Fitting of handling enhancing suspension components such as roll stabiliser bars and up-rated shock absorbers. Major modifications which fall outside the category of minor (owner certified) modifications require submission of certification by an RTA recognised engineering signatory. This is usually in the form of an Engineering certificate prepared by the signatory. Deseaming a Mini is a modification that i would not consider reasonably falls under the category of owner certified modifications. RTA wrote: Any modification that would affect these crashworthiness safety standards should only be made on the advice of the vehicle's original manufacturer or an engineering signatory. Deseaming a Mini would affect the crashworthiness of a Mini, and even though the relevant ADRs were not in place for the Mini production, this leads to a reasonable assessment that an engineering signatory is necessary. RTA wrote: Bodywork and interior
There are general requirements concerning alterations to the bodywork:
No alteration may cause a reduction in the level of safety or overall strength of the vehicle. You need the engineering signatory to certify that your deseaming has not caused a reduction in the level of safety or overall strength of the vehicle. The document that I have quoted from is available from the RTA website and is the first place you should look for guidance when considering any modification to your car. Follow the link above and you can get the rest of the details. cheers michael |
Author: | Clubbed_76 [ Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I'm also going down this road, not a full deseam though. I'm keeping the gutters. In my opinion, don't scimp on money in this area. Take it to a very well known body fab shop that has engineering abilities/consulting. As my shell is getting quite a big of fab work done, it's all getting done at the one shop at the same time. If anyone NEEDS to use filler in this area to complete the job, then they aren't up to the job IMHO. |
Author: | peterb [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:37 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Just my two cents worth, but if you cut seam off and continus weld it, wouldn't it be stronger than the spot welds. Isn't that why the racing car builders strip the shells and mig/tig the seams that are spotted? |
Author: | Archangel007 [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:48 am ] |
Post subject: | |
peterb wrote: Just my two cents worth, but if you cut seam off and continus weld it, wouldn't it be stronger than the spot welds. Isn't that why the racing car builders strip the shells and mig/tig the seams that are spotted?
Yes!! |
Author: | Morris 1100 [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:45 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Archangel007 wrote: peterb wrote: Just my two cents worth, but if you cut seam off and continus weld it, wouldn't it be stronger than the spot welds. Isn't that why the racing car builders strip the shells and mig/tig the seams that are spotted? Yes!! Yes and No! It depends on the person doing the welding. ![]() Race cars are not road cars. We don't drive on the road with helmets and harnesses. They don't seam weld for safety, they do it to improve the performance, to make it handle better. But another important thing is that cars these days are designed for safety and progressive crumple. They use the spot welds as part of the crumple mechanism. They just pop one at a time as they progressively ley go. If you seam weld a modern car it will make it less safe for the occupants. |
Author: | Archangel007 [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:02 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
So, to answer the question, would it make it stronger (and taking into account that the person doing the welding is competent) then the answer is YES! |
Author: | mickmini [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 1:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Seam weld the race car using a stitch weld rather than continuous? it has the advantage that it adds the necessary stiffness to the shell, but will stop a fatigue crack in its tracks. if you happen to whack something, the crumple zones outside the cage should still work, though not as well as spot welds, otherwise all the energy of the impact gets transferred directly to the human squishy bits. The spot weld vs continuous weld falls into the crashworthiness category of needing an engineers certificate for a road car ..... cheers michael |
Author: | DA9jeff [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:53 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Mini's have crumple zones??...it is basically all single skin construction, hence why the Mini ceased production because it couldn't meet current safety standards. Deseaming done correctly [back plate/full outer weld with NO grinding ... just "hammered" down flush with minimum bog will be a lot stronger than spot welding. |
Author: | drmini in aust [ Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
DA9jeff wrote: Mini's have crumple zones??...it is basically all single skin construction, hence why the Mini ceased production because it couldn't meet current safety standards.
Deseaming done correctly [back plate/full outer weld with NO grinding ... just "hammered" down flush with minimum bog will be a lot stronger than spot welding. YES Minis have crumple zones, for example the 2 holes at top of the inner guards on a Clubby (with a plastic plug in) are there to provide initiation of the crumple when you have the misfortune to hit something head on. They also all have a `collapsible' steering column provided by the bus-like steering angle, it is designed to bend forwards into the screen if you hit something. Trust me it works, I have 1st hand knowledge from a high speed altercation with a tree in 1965. |
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