Have heard a few rumours around the traps that the next installment of the BMW mini will come armed with a Peugeot engine pumping out some massive power figures... can anyone confirm this?

Hope its not too good... I might start liking the New Mini!!

Big Dan

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Be afraid, be very afraid...The Clubman is coming...!!

Expect it in 2005 sometime.

Will be a force to be reconed with, with that Pug engine under the hood.

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Damn, the rumours are true and it has potential to be an absolute weapon... By 2005 I will be a poor man... Although my fiance has mentioned once or twice that she likes the new mini... hmmmm I may have a plan...

Big Dan

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Be afraid, be very afraid...The Clubman is coming...!!

Bugger. I thought that maybe they were going to make it better.....

Not only do i think the bmw mini is an IMPOSTER, but powering it with a PEUGEOT motor?? Lets see... that will make it an imposter that is unreliable AND even more expensive to fix!!! YEAH, I'll buy 3 of em thanks.....

Everyone i've known, who have owned a peugeot, say they ARE crap, regardless.

Sorry to all NEW MINI fans out there if this offends you.....but i'd rather push my old mini than buy a new one.... (and i do).

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[NATHAN] -- Sold everything mini related and am back in big beautiful BMWs

You say that you think the new mini is an imposter, then mention something about being unreliable and expensive to fix... Just quietly, I thought that was what minis were all about, but I may be wrong...

Seriously though, IMO (and I don't expect you to share it) Peugeot have some quite good cars in their line up, with some very well engineered engines pushing out fairly decent power figures... And yes, I have driven one - a fully kitted out rally car in fact - although I haven't owned one myself... I can understand that their cars are not everyones cup of tea, but you only have to watch that old Peugeot TV ad of their car in the 1988 Pikes Peak race to really appreciate how much engineering, R+D, and 'testing' goes into their engines...

Then again, everyone you've known who has owned a peugeot, has said they ARE crap, regardless, so I guess I have been shut down before I even started...



Big Dan

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Be afraid, be very afraid...The Clubman is coming...!!

yep this was announced officially some time ago

its going to the the same engine as the 206 gti 180 since they cant use chrysler derived engines anymore since mercedes now own them and they're BMW direct domestic competition.

from memory its 130 odd kw and around the same, or a little less torque (200ish nm if i remember correctly)
but the figures by themselves are a little misleading since its an NA engine the power and torque is developed at much higher revs and thus i believe it'll b a typical affair of having the wring the cars neck to get any go outa the engine as with most high power n/a engines and with the current car having great low down torque and making it so easy to drive day to day i think it'll be a change for the worse

it will also kill the aftermarket for them which is thriving at the moment, and i believe make the older ones more sought after as you wont be making an NA engine put out another 30 kws for 1000 bucks or less like u can with the current engine thanks to the supercharger.. so the tuning aspect that appeals to alotta mini owners is pretty much out the door.. and keep in mind the john cooper works kit for the NA cooper adds 11hp and costs 3-4 grand from memory... its going to be a travesty when the next works kit comes out in 2005/6

edit - oh just remembered it will also carry over the same LSD from the peugeot car.. something the S really needs.. especially when u work em a little.. tho a quaife diff would have been better.. but oh well

i think its also going to be a little restyled in the looks department nothing major a few little changes to the front and rear bar, different tail lightsand a new dash with some weird stuff going on where the tacho/speedo now is which is pretty ugly

I'm a little dissapointed that its going this way.. theres better engines they could have used, and god forbid BMW would make thier own small 4cyl performance engine for the car to possibly share with the 1 series that has been comming for what seems forever. But meh.. its done now, thankfully i've already got a cooper S and dont have 2 worry about it

And to all the new mini haters.. im all smiles.. i own an old mini too, love it to death, cant bring myself to sell it, but i havent driven it in over a year.. i think thats all that need to be said

Well, between a choice of the Chrysler Neon based engine and the Pug 206. the Pug wins hands down IMHO. I like the new 206 and 307 Pugs, and as much as I hate the french, I think the new Pugs are a top little car.

I believe the only reason Peugeot has copped a bad rep here, is that they were never meant for Australian conditions. My neighbours had a 505, and after helping replace the diff after 500 000 k's, i came to realise that they had some bloody smart idea's. (Completely sealed modular driveline)

But australian dust and crap tend to ruin most great idea's and precision technology in new cars. That could be why we still most commonly use simpler designed cars. Less stuff to go wrong.

Oh yeah, it could have been worse. They could have decided to go for the Daewoo Cielo 1.5 (Old camira engine). Now that was one screwed up engine.

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"He's always been a dickhead, He always is a dickhead, He will always be a dickhead. So stop complaining when he acts like one."

I tend to agree with PhildoD, IMHO the Pugs are a great car to play in. (I love European cars.)

My old house mate had a 405 (?), and he loved it, reckoned he'd had no problems, and that was with doing around 100km's round trip a day to and from work.

But I'm the sort of mug who will ride/drive anything someone is stupid enough to hand the keys to over....

My bro-in-law has a new Mini, and it's great, but it's too much of a BMW for my tastes, not enough character, and no oil leaks...

( Oh, and I sold my '95 Saab to pay for a lot of '66 Deluxe's parts. Madness?, nah!!!)

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Due to lack of interest, tomorrow has been cancelled....

As an Aussie currently working at BMW's Forschungs und Innovationzentrum (Research and Development facility) in Munich, Germany (that is responsible for the development of all BMW, Rolls Royce and Mini vehicles) I would like to thank SOOPER for providing well-researched and factual arguments. So much utter crap is spouted by people on the forums (both here and elsewhere). If a mate of a mate of a mate who works at BMW told you something, do us all a favour and save it for yourself.

For the record, I own a 1966 Panelvan and a 1980 Californian Moke back in Oz and am completely obsessed with the original Mini. I am a fan of the new Mini/Bini (personally not sold on the cabriolet mind you), and I wish I could afford a JCW Cooper S. Yes the BMW-Chrysler engine joint-venture was a disappointment, but I know for a fact that BMW was immediately unhappy with the engine and spent a great deal of time and money improving it to its current levels. While everyone is entitled to their opinion, I don't think BMW completely undermined the original like VW did with the New Beetle.

BMW is not going to bastardise themselves by creating extremely low-spec/comparitively low quality Mini variants etc. BMW is a premium brand and won't tarnish that image. They have already been burned once - anybody else remember the Rover takeover and sell-off?

Anyway, take it or leave it.

damo maybe they should have sold the mini name with the rover brand hey
but thats my opinion ..... and opinions are like arsholes everyone has one
makka

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Anonymous moderation means the agro that is built up towards the mods isn't aimed at an individual (fewer "Makk" attacks). Less stress for mods means less moderator "retirements".

True Makka... Opinions are fine, and they were not really my issue. But when I return to Oz in October I am sure I will again be scrambling for every last bit of information the general public can glean. Possibly a matter of perspective in this case.

On a side note, I can't wait to get back to driving my Van and Moke. Well that and whacking the 7.5" disc brakes (that miniimports posted here) onto the Van. Good to have someone back at home to check them out and grab them for me.

Again, everyone has their own opinion, but clearly the New Mini is proving to be successful. This is directly quoted from some of BMW's internal propaganda:

Over 440,000 MINI delivered in three years
In the small car segment, the MINI has become firmly established as a premium automobile in the third year of its production. 440,732 units have already been handed over to customers since the market launch in July 2001. In the first six months of 2004, 95,168 MINI have left the dealerships worldwide (plus 5.9% / prev.yr.: 89,881). Michael Ganal: "MINI is an absolute hit. Its success confirms the concept - more and more customers choose a premium car, which does not mean it has to be a big car".

Looky here...very reminiscent of Gem...

http://www.strangevehicles.com/content/item/102646.html

http://www.strangevehicles.com/content/item/102645.html

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"Show me the Mini!"

G'day to all,

Just joined this place to get "the feel of the place". I had an old Mini once (years ago) and it was fun briefly till it expired and went to Mini heaven.

Well many years later I now find myself trolling round looking to buy another original Mini in much better condition. In doing so I've become fascinated at the contempt held by some for the new MINI and had to say something.

Straight up to those who think little of the new MINI....yes I already own a new Cooper S and no, the ill-feeling ain't reciprocal. Obviously there is a distaste for BMW's "theft" of the mini identity. I'm quite happy fence sitting on which is better......I love em both!!!
For those stuck in the past, you must of seen it coming that things couldn't stay as is...I see a new generation of kids who want to drive newly built MINIs, as did some original Mini owners years ago. They want that fun packaged with a Mini badge on the front of it. In the club environment I see many young people who love MINIs, but have no understanding of the history. It's just too bad when an old Mini don't wave back. How do I explain that?

For your insight there is a comparative resentment of BMWs by new MINI owners as I've seen here against the new MINIs. Essentially you buy a BMW if your a snob and a MINI if your not. Its a challenge for example to type "BMW MINI", ....no its a "MINI" from Mini Garage, and that’s owned by BMW. (Also note originals are "Mini" to fairly separate from MINI). Yep for some people it's all in the details!

Yeah OK, they are not the same car in body..... but I reckon they are in spirit. For those who feel their religion has been breached by a newcomer, then let me give a few pointers on what Mini and MINI share.

1.The Mini was new and revolutionary when introduced and drew all types of people. That situation remains unchanged.

2. Take a car and put it hard into a corner...if it still comes accelerating out the other end, then look that direction and likely be seeing a mini.

3. If a crowd of very small children suddenly turn and point at the road, then get exited, its probably cause they have just seen a mini. I've yet to understand this, but I guess children get eventually corrupted by parents who drive Toragos, Falcons, etc. I'm certain children innocently know what fun is. They aren’t bias about what brand is stamped on the front of good driving fun.

4. Most other things are arguable. Body styles are a matter of taste. Whether the MINI copies the Mini or not, who gives a....... I do note that Mini owners (old or new) are proud and very individual (as no two liveries seem the same). Owners are of strong faith and proud of what they have. To you whom resent all that is new...we come to add, not take away. PS for those with true knowledge that MINIs are a collection of other makers parts, many MINI drivers would be keen for your factual information regards alternative parts. I note that from John Cooper Works website there seems no shame in embracing all MINIs, and mixing them together.

If you are like-minded, live near NSW Central Coast and are lonely for a cruise (or just wants to sample a herd of MINIs) most Sunday's (inclusive 28/11/04) start at Pie In The Sky (PITS) at Cowan at 9am via the most bent roads we can find.....This week...the Hunter Valley. If you live on the Central Coast or Newcastle we start earlier via Yarramalong Valley for a cool little hill climb up Bumble Hill and across to Kariong for the Old Pacific Hwy. If you are someone who's allergic to "club crap carry-on" the good news is we only want to drive and you were just going the same way. For this reason further info availble if you contact.

CYA on the bends

Great summary of the Mini and Bini.
I like them both... the Bini comes with airconditioning.