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Direct injection 5 port head?
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48722		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kennomini [ Fri Dec 26, 2008 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Direct injection 5 port head?
Firstly I don't know how DI works but I had this idea;
I was looking at a mini head today and I thought would it be possible to drill through the side of the head, (from either the front or the back) into the combustion chamber, tap in an injector and run direct injection :?:
Author:  DOZ [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:22 am ]
Post subject: 
The potential is there but the limitations will be the software/hardware to drive them. The 5 porter requires a few tricks to get the fuel mixtures correct, regardless of whether you inject into the port or directly into the cylinder.

Daniel
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
You just need to buy a factory DI head. They did make them. *














*They were fitted to the BMC Mini Tractor with a diesel engine. :wink:
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
There is a lot more to direct injection than bolting some common electronic injectors onto the head somewhere.
Most (all?) of these systems for 4 stroke motors use mechanical injection to cope with the pressure in the cylinders.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_Direct_Injection
:wink:

<edit> Mick, we need more than 16HP, please. :lol:
BTW the Mini tractor was indirect injection. :wink:
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
drmini in aust wrote:
There is a lot more to direct injection than bolting some common electronic injectors onto the head somewhere.
Most (all?) of these systems for 4 stroke motors use mechanical injection to cope with the pressure in the cylinders.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_Direct_Injection
:wink:

<edit> Mick, we need more than 16HP, please. :lol:
BTW the Mini tractor was indirect injection. :wink:
Near enough! :lol:

With direct injection the injector needs to be able to withstand the combustion pressure and heat. It also needs to be placed in the right spot and at the right angle to work correctly. This is not a backyard job.
Author:  DOZ [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
The pumps are commonly mechanical, but the injectors are electronically controlled ala

Image

This means the tuning requirements of the software would be similar to the port injection anyway (timing of the event and qty of fuel), i.e. if you think port injection on a 5 porter is hard - this will be just the same tuning-wise.

Daniel
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
Doz, that is a good diagram of the late common rail type of injection.

The downside of direct injection is that the faster it revs the more fuel it uses but the shorter time is has to inject it.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's got to be way cheaper to fit an 8 port head and decent port injection, than R&D direct injection on the old 5 port head.
:lol:
Author:  DOZ [ Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
After meeting Mad Matt last week I reckon the twinky conversion would be the best EFI option. Having said that there will always be those who think these things will be an easy conversion - good luck is all I can say lol

The time problem vs rpm for injecting the fuel is the same for the DFI as EFI. My BINI has an rpm redline of 6500 - pretty sure the DFI is the main limitation there.

Daniel
Author:  squidage [ Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Not DI, but as close as you'll get with a DIY job
Someone has done the hard work already.

You can get "semi"sequential injection for a 5-port.

Just need a trigger wheel, map/lamba sensors, v.short manifold with injectors pointing right into the siamesed ports

and lastly the Canems ECU.

http://www.canems.co.uk/casestudy/1380inj.php
Author:  DOZ [ Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Not DI, but as close as you'll get with a DIY job
squidage wrote:
Someone has done the hard work already.

You can get "semi"sequential injection for a 5-port.

Just need a trigger wheel, map/lamba sensors, v.short manifold with injectors pointing right into the siamesed ports

and lastly the Canems ECU.

http://www.canems.co.uk/casestudy/1380inj.php


Mine has had port injection for 10 yrs now (Motec ECU) - and with plenty more power than that http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp4W-0KsQ ... annel_page

The point is the difficulty in port injection will be the same with DFI I reckon
Author:  squidage [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Very nice, but that's cheating! :wink: there's a whopping great snail sitting on top of it! :D :D :D
Author:  poeee [ Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
I thought the problem with port injection on a siamese port was outside cylinders running lean due to the firing order. Wouldn't direct injection fix this?
Author:  squidage [ Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes, DI would - but the effort and cost = better to change to an 8port/crossflow head

but the Canems seems to get around charge robbing by using very precise sequential injection. explaination here:

http://www.canems.co.uk/siameseports.php
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