ausmini :: View topic - Clutch Throw Out Bearing

Ahhhhh,,,, i`m not sure if you think that the average of 20 years of use is not enough for the correct std 3w5/8 bearing to warrant the modification that you`re talking about

fair enough the crappy $20 7w5/8 replacement bearing obviously doesn`t wear anywhere near as well as the original 3w5/8, but you get what you pay for i spose

But still,,, i just can`t see anything wrong with the std issue 3w5/8 flat face bearing lasting 20 years or more,,, why try to re-invent the wheel that`s been working so well for soooo long???

I can tell you that """MOST""" of the troubles that """ANYONE"""" seems to be having is directlyrelated to """POOR SET UP"""" than anything else....IE: sooo many people do`nt realise how the system is meant to be set up & adjusted (even tho they`ll tell you that they do)

Most of the problems are caused by over adjustment,,, where the oor old bearing is running hard up against the clutch the whole time & is simply getting way to hot for major lengths of time & spinning all it`s grease out & dieing a premature horrible dry heat death

If you set up & adjust the system using the correct original 3w5/8 bearing correctly,,, then they will last 20 plus years,,, simple as that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Author:	Mini_Special [ Thu May 07, 2009 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Clutch Throw Out Bearing
I am looking at changing the Angular Contact Bearing, we all call The Clutch Throwout Bearing, with a Tapered roller bearing and was interested to see if anybody had started/had thoughts on this project before. I believe the taper will be better,IF installed to be in constant contact cup to cone, making the rolling element the "wear point" as compared to teh outer face of the A/C Bearing we are all stuck using. Angular Contact Bearing are not desigined for SHOCK loads that can be generated if you are an excited clutch user,this is what causes them to fail or start to make that annoying noise, but by using the tapered bearing in a preloaded setup the "shock " load will be removed. The taper will happily spin at teh same RPM as the flywheel/pressure plate and then when the clutch is "disengaged" the Axial load will be transferred via the taper a lot more efficiently than the A/C bearing. Issues. 1. Will need to fabricate a way to have teh CUP attach to the pressure plate. 2. Will need to find a way to keep it lubricated, as the A/C bearing is a sealed unit 3. Knowledge as to whether you can get enuf preload on the bearing for it to not skip. All Ideas or comments welcome Scott.

Author:	mini_mad_matt [ Thu May 07, 2009 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:
I dont have anything useful to say, except it seems like an awful lot of trouble for such an easy job to replace with standard bearing

Author:	850man [ Thu May 07, 2009 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:
mini_mad_matt wrote: I dont have anything useful to say, except it seems like an awful lot of trouble for such an easy job to replace with standard bearing What he said.

Author:	rad97 [ Thu May 07, 2009 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:	clutch throw out bearing
Not worth it just buy a new standard bearing for 20 dollars and its right as rain again. its best not to tamper with stuff that has proven it self reliable for thousands of miles for such a simple item.

Author:	TheMiniMan [ Fri May 08, 2009 11:16 am ]
Post subject:
Ahhhhh,,,, i`m not sure if you think that the average of 20 years of use is not enough for the correct std 3w5/8 bearing to warrant the modification that you`re talking about fair enough the crappy $20 7w5/8 replacement bearing obviously doesn`t wear anywhere near as well as the original 3w5/8, but you get what you pay for i spose But still,,, i just can`t see anything wrong with the std issue 3w5/8 flat face bearing lasting 20 years or more,,, why try to re-invent the wheel that`s been working so well for soooo long??? I can tell you that """MOST""" of the troubles that """ANYONE"""" seems to be having is directlyrelated to """POOR SET UP"""" than anything else....IE: sooo many people do`nt realise how the system is meant to be set up & adjusted (even tho they`ll tell you that they do) Most of the problems are caused by over adjustment,,, where the oor old bearing is running hard up against the clutch the whole time & is simply getting way to hot for major lengths of time & spinning all it`s grease out & dieing a premature horrible dry heat death If you set up & adjust the system using the correct original 3w5/8 bearing correctly,,, then they will last 20 plus years,,, simple as that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Author:	Mini_Special [ Fri May 08, 2009 11:26 am ]
Post subject:
TheMiniMan wrote: Ahhhhh,,,, i`m not sure if you think that the average of 20 years of use is not enough for the correct std 3w5/8 bearing to warrant the modification that you`re talking about fair enough the crappy $20 7w5/8 replacement bearing obviously doesn`t wear anywhere near as well as the original 3w5/8, but you get what you pay for i spose But still,,, i just can`t see anything wrong with the std issue 3w5/8 flat face bearing lasting 20 years or more,,, why try to re-invent the wheel that`s been working so well for soooo long??? I can tell you that """MOST""" of the troubles that """ANYONE"""" seems to be having is directlyrelated to """POOR SET UP"""" than anything else....IE: sooo many people do`nt realise how the system is meant to be set up & adjusted (even tho they`ll tell you that they do) Most of the problems are caused by over adjustment,,, where the oor old bearing is running hard up against the clutch the whole time & is simply getting way to hot for major lengths of time & spinning all it`s grease out & dieing a premature horrible dry heat death If you set up & adjust the system using the correct original 3w5/8 bearing correctly,,, then they will last 20 plus years,,, simple as that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Matt, your correct in what you say and am not argueing the fact the Timken Bearing works nor the fact there are people out the who have NFI what they are doing, i am trying to fix an issue that has plauged me a number of times and am looking for a fit and forget cure. Having looked at it from an engineering POV I realise that it will cost more in effort than i will ever get back.

Author:	TheMiniMan [ Fri May 08, 2009 11:29 am ]
Post subject:
yeah,,, i understand,,, go for it,,, There are already some hydraulic throw-out bearings in the Big HP aftermarket race shops tho, if you want to look at doing a double whammy fix

Author:	Mini_Special [ Fri May 08, 2009 11:56 am ]
Post subject:
Have seen them and they look SEXY!!!!!!!!!!! Have had TOB let go while out on stages in the forest and it is no fun trying to change the dam thing with sod all tools, if i can make it almost Bulletproof i will be somewhat happy. DNF due to a $20 part is just annoying I have found a guy with a CNC and a heap'o'time so i will duck of and see him with a handfull of bits and a carton of Amber cash.

Author:	drmini in aust [ Fri May 08, 2009 11:56 am ]
Post subject:
One reason these 7W5/8 bearings wear before their time is people using .70" bore MCs for clutches. They just don't move enough fluid to throw the clutch out properly and still provide bearing clearance with the pedal up. Particularly when they get a lot of miles up and all the linkages wear. Clutch MCs should be 0.750", but not all were.

Author:	Mini_Special [ Fri May 08, 2009 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:
"Fit 2 clutch return springs?" he askes in jest (have seen it done)

Author:	TheMiniMan [ Fri May 08, 2009 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:
The good Doc is also right,,, soooo many minis are not set up properly & heaps have the small master cyl as well No need for double return springs """IF""" all else is perfect Very heavy rally & race type clutch diaph springs (like orange & greys) do rend to reduce the life of both the tob & the crank thrusts, so in those situations it`s best to stay off the clutch as much as possible,,, use it only when you need it & no riding the clutch at lights etc But still should get "YEARS" of use out of the original type 3w5/8 bearing,,, the cheapo $20 one (7w5/8) is crap,,, i just don`t use them EVER!!! sorry to harp on & on,,, but i do like the idea of the spiffy hydraulic bearing & carrier assys,,, i`ve been looking at them for my V8 Kombie Ute

Author:	drmini in aust [ Fri May 08, 2009 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:
I've had the cheap 7W5/8 one with an orange dot clutch in my 1360 for 4 years, no problem. Because I couldn't find the Timken one back then. But... 1. It's a good RHP one, MADE IN ENGLAND. 2. The clutch was set up properly with the diaphragm spring flat when assembled. 3. I religiously stay off it at the lights, or stopped in traffic. <EDIT> typo....YES Matt, it is a 7W...

Author:	TheMiniMan [ Thu May 14, 2009 11:44 am ]
Post subject:
well at least it`s a 3w5/8 & not the 7w5/8 & RHP are a good bearing in my books

Author:	Tombo [ Thu May 14, 2009 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:
Interesting idea. If there was some kind of compression ring between the bearing and pressure plate then they wouldn't nececarily need to be attached to maintain a little preload, and it would allow some adjustment. the trickiest bit would be creating a seal setup to keep the grease in.

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Author:	Lillee [ Fri May 15, 2009 10:02 am ]
Post subject:
I don't have anything useful to add except I was genuinely shocked at the difference in design of a timkin bearing versus the std 7w5/8 bearing