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external oil filter
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=54474		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  simon k [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  external oil filter
when my spider gears were busily grinding itself into oblivion, the oil pump was picking up the pieces and doing the same - it's quite a mess...

I've looked at the oil pickup and gallery to the oil pump before and wondered why it's not a regular modification to put in an external filter before the pump

so why not block off the outlet from the gearbox, and put a fitting on the little plate that's already there
Image

then put a fitting on the block here - see my screwdriver in the hole?
Image

here's the tip sitting in the inlet to the oil pump
Image

thoughts?
Author:  EST-071 [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Minispares sell these things :?
MAGNETIC OIL TRAP WITH FILTER
Cheers Pete
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Filters are designed to have the oil pushed through them, if you try to suck through a filter it will close up and you get nothing.
Author:  sgc [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: external oil filter
simon k wrote:
thoughts?


Sounds like a good idea to me! The only downside with filtering before the pump would be that as the filter clogs, your oil pressure is going to drop.. but that's no downside at all as you can measure it (and prevent it entirely with regular filter changes).

Question to ask is: Why did BMC design it like this in the first place? I would have thought that an engine running gears in the sump is going to generate lots more swarf than one with a traditional gearbox, so they must have had a damn good reason for putting the filter on the pressure side of the pump.
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
deluxe_68 wrote:
Minispares sell these things :?
MAGNETIC OIL TRAP WITH FILTER
Cheers Pete

I put one of those things on my 1310 motor, once...
Before 1000 miles was up from rebuild, the oil pressure started to go away. The trap filled with gunk and starved the pump.
And what a bastard of a place to put it, with Hardy Spicer joints... :evil:
It's out now, anybody wants one cheap, PM me. :lol:

Simon, another way to put an inline filter in-
tap both those bosses on the block, then press a brass plug down the oilway to block between them.
Connect remote filter, but make sure it's a big bastard.... or you will get pump starvation. :wink:
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you do it it is going to fail.
Author:  GoodnightWalter [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Morris 1100 wrote:
Filters are designed to have the oil pushed through them, if you try to suck through a filter it will close up and you get nothing.


The best part of having an oil filter on the suction side is, when the filter does block up, the cartridge collapses to about a quarter of it's original length and releases filter paper through the oil galleries.

Not fun.
Author:  simon k [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Morris 1100 wrote:
Filters are designed to have the oil pushed through them, if you try to suck through a filter it will close up and you get nothing.


any thoughts on an external pickup pump that can supply the filter, and won't be affected so much by bits of metal going through it?
Author:  michaelb [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Another little trick is to have the pressure relief valve in the oil filter head welded up.
I have had this done to mine, was an idea passed onto me by someone who raced minis in the 70's. Just need to replace the filter at every oil change. This is supposed to stop rubbish bypassing the filter as the pressure relief valve is supposed to open at around 20 or 30 lbs. I have been running this in my Cooper S for the past 30 years with no problems and no metal being pushed through to destroying the bearings.
Author:  Tombo [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
michaelb wrote:
Another little trick is to have the pressure relief valve in the oil filter head welded up.
I have had this done to mine, was an idea passed onto me by someone who raced minis in the 70's. Just need to replace the filter at every oil change. This is supposed to stop rubbish bypassing the filter as the pressure relief valve is supposed to open at around 20 or 30 lbs. I have been running this in my Cooper S for the past 30 years with no problems and no metal being pushed through to destroying the bearings.

Going by what you've said, a fresh engine that gets reved high may regularily have metal pumped through it :shock:
Author:  Asphalt [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tombo wrote:
Going by what you've said, a fresh engine that gets reved high may regularily have metal pumped through it :shock:


This bearing had been in an engine without any other damage than this. Gearbox was OK (for 100k kms anyway). I've not found any explanation other than the valve opening to early (at least this was pointed out to me). I'm open for any other suggestions! All the other bearings were still perfectly usable.

Image

Re: the remote filter:
There's an interesting thread in the Mk1 forum:
http://www.atfreeforum.com/phpbb/viewto ... um=mk1mark

Looks like it works very good (with a masive filter :shock: )

Cheers,
Jan
Author:  drmini in aust [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tombo wrote:
michaelb wrote:
Another little trick is to have the pressure relief valve in the oil filter head welded up.
I have had this done to mine, was an idea passed onto me by someone who raced minis in the 70's. Just need to replace the filter at every oil change. This is supposed to stop rubbish bypassing the filter as the pressure relief valve is supposed to open at around 20 or 30 lbs. I have been running this in my Cooper S for the past 30 years with no problems and no metal being pushed through to destroying the bearings.

Going by what you've said, a fresh engine that gets reved high may regularily have metal pumped through it :shock:

You would need 20 or 30psi pressure drop across the filter, not just oil pressure in the system.
Graham Russell reckons that unless you let the filter clog up, this never happens. Yes I did ask him.:wink:
Author:  david rosenthal [ Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Look at what the poms did with their high performance engs 40 years ago.
DRY SUMP the eng.
Some of the pics I have seen they used a big drain into a separate tank attatched to front of g/box case.No scavaging p/p needed.
It is the only successful way to keep crap from box out of the eng. It is easy with my honda con as the oil p/p is external. Then run gear oil in the box. The dry sump plate is similar to the windage plate that I use except it is folded over the g/box top and sandwiched between box and eng.
I have used a large remote mounted duplex hydraulic magnetic strainer/filter that changes automatically when filter differential increases, but cost and I still had doubts with it
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