I have been told a belt drive cam kit is worth a few HP at the crank over a duplex chain, has anybody seen the difference on a dyno?
I've acquired another Triger belt kit and I'm thinking of putting it on the 1412 stroker before it goes in.
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | HP gain from belt drive kit? |
I have been told a belt drive cam kit is worth a few HP at the crank over a duplex chain, has anybody seen the difference on a dyno? I've acquired another Triger belt kit and I'm thinking of putting it on the 1412 stroker before it goes in.
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| Author: | meeni [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:13 am ] |
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so it was you that bought it!  ive heard that too, but ive also heard of even more from a geared timing setup ie. no belts or chains, just 3 gears doing the job
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| Author: | madmorrie [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:17 am ] |
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Ha, ha. Someone has to fit it eventually. I looked at that and went 'hey that looks just like the.. oh it is' My mum got it with her sprite which she bought in bits mostly, the previous owner had never fitted it, we never fitted it, obviously 64cooper never fitted it. Give it some life drmini! Madmorrie |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:37 pm ] |
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I've had one the same in the 1310/1360 for the last 15 years, never had a problem. I changed the original Pirelli/Dayco belt at 40,000 miles, it currently runs a Gates kevlar one from Mini Mania in US. I won't use the Chinese made belts, I found them too loose when new (there is no tensioner in these kits). I like these early Triger (non-vernier) kits, they are stronger in the cam pulley hub. I just time them in with an offset cam key.
BTW a duplex chain uses more power to drive it than a simplex one does. Simplex ones wear/stretch easy, but that's because they are too light duty. Stay tuned for a performance replacement being available here soon... (not from me) |
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| Author: | KLAS [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:05 pm ] |
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meeni wrote: but ive also heard of even more from a geared timing setup ie. no belts or chains, just 3 gears doing the job but you pay for it  such gears are very noisy. i run a set from Slark Race Engineering. at idle it sounds like something is broken
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| Author: | GT mowog [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HP gain from belt drive kit? |
drmini in aust wrote: I have been told a belt drive cam kit is worth a few HP at the crank over a duplex chain, has anybody seen the difference on a dyno?
I've acquired another Triger belt kit and I'm thinking of putting it on the 1412 stroker before it goes in. There maybe some small gains but I would think it almost 'academic' amounts (granted in racing every little bit counts), however the belt drive without question will hold the cam timing more accurately far longer and I tend to think that this is where it's greatest gains are. It is funny though the trends that car makers go through. They started with chain and some with gears, then they went to belts and there now seems to be a trend back to chains..... |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:22 pm ] |
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... because: 1. Belts on a FWD Jap car are all a PITA to change. 2. If they break, many engines suffer bent valves etc. 3. Chains on modern engines don't break- well, something else in there will go first. 
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| Author: | mini7boy [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:22 pm ] |
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when it comes to belt drive kits, it doesn't get any better than this. It's an absolute gem.......and priced like one. http://www.shengineering.co.uk/pcmtimingbeltkit.aspx |
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| Author: | Kennomini [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: HP gain from belt drive kit? |
GT mowog wrote: There maybe some small gains but I would think it almost 'academic' amounts (granted in racing every little bit counts)
I always hear people saying this but in a mini with 45bhp at the wheels if you can gain 1,2 or 3 hp from something like this, in my opinion the gain is worth chasing (it's a decent percentage gain). Obviously in a falcodore that amount is worth nothing. |
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| Author: | Asphalt [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:54 pm ] |
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It would be intresting to know the weight of these kits? An A+ cam pulley weights 405g (198g crank pulley). But it probably gets iradicated by the weight difference between chain & belt 
Anyway; this sounds promising (but expensive): http://www.calverst.com/shop1/index.php ... ucts_id=71 |
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| Author: | TheMiniMan [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:01 pm ] |
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Jan, ,surprisingly enough,,, the whole rotating mass is about the same in weight,,, & if i remember correctly the trigger ones are even a tad heavier than a std double row gear&chain kit but my memory is fading some-what,,, where are we anyways? & why am i typing ito the microwave oven ??? 
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:08 pm ] |
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Asphalt wrote: It would be intresting to know the weight of these kits? An A+ cam pulley weights 405g (198g crank pulley). But it probably gets iradicated by the weight difference between chain & belt
Anyway; this sounds promising (but expensive): http://www.calverst.com/shop1/index.php ... ucts_id=71 Jan, this is the heavy duty chain I was talking about earlier. You can use it on either a simplex or duplex sprocket set. Only 1 is in Oz that I know of, so far. [edit] £33 is not bad, we pay nearly that here for the IWIS duplex chain. |
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| Author: | 1071 [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:09 pm ] |
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.".....Chains on modern engines don't break- well, something else in there will go first" Belt in my Volvo (non interference engine:) lasted over 500K.... The ones in the Mini get changed when something else happens and none of them (in around 20 years) have ever shown the slightest wear. Cheers, Ian |
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| Author: | drmini in aust [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:47 pm ] |
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Belt in a Fiat 124 sport or 125 is supposed to be changed at 50,000 miles. I did 60,000 with one once, then it stripped 11 teeth whilst idling at the lights. Interference engine. Took 7 new valves and guides to fix it... 
Belts are all great until the polyester coating on their teeth wears, then the plain rubber underneath strips away. I hear they don't like oil, either. But I've not had that problem. I change the Mini ones at 40,000 miles, after all there's only 52 teeth so they go round lots more times than yer Volvo one. And there's no tensioner, either.
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| Author: | TheMiniMan [ Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:53 pm ] |
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i`ve both seen & heard of plenty of mini timing belt failures usually due to both old age & oil leaks i`m not a big fan of them at all sorry If anyone was an avid reader of "Fast-Fours-&-Rotarys magazine , you`d remember their own super mini (Sports sedan race mini) timing belt failure,,, & it wasn`t even running very long at all ... it just stripped & destroyed the donk oh yeah nice & quiet,,, & less cam & timing scatter,,, whatever,,, I`m always waiting for timing belts stripping, i`ve already replaced the turbo twin cam moke belt & the Lexus V8 belt in my Kombi... any oil leaks i fix em straight away & replace the belt crickey why should we have to deal with that sort of weakness in a drive train??? There`s absolutely nothing wrong with duplex gears & chain,,, never was & never will be |
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