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Racing Mini front suspension
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=643		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Minimad [ Fri May 21, 2004 10:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Racing Mini front suspension
Hi
I am currently building a Austin Cooper S to race in Aussie historics(Nb).
I am looking for information and/or someone that has changed the front
suspension mounting points on the front subframe to get better wheel
geomitery when a mini is lowered into the weeds.

These are the rules:-
"8.5 Locating Devices/Attachment: Suspension pick up points may be moved by
up to 30mm. At all times, the original form of steering and suspension
joints must be employed. Elastomeric bushings may be replaced by others of
free material, as defined by Article 5 of the general Group N regulations.
Elastomeric bushings may not be replaced by spherical or "Rose" type joints"

I have heard of people moving the lower contol arm up, and know another
person who moved both upper and lower control arms up and used an early
model hydo subframe. (there taller in the towers). That particular car, the
saying 'crap to a blanket' comes to mind.....on normal road tyres!!! (No, he
won't tell me how he did it!??@)

A have got hold of an early subframe and I am allowed to use the 1.5 or 2
degree aftermarket lower control arms to help things along, but not
adjustable.

Any ideas, people, articles, web sites,.....anything to point me in the
right direction.

Craig
Author:  HistoricRacingS [ Mon May 24, 2004 9:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Craig/Minimad,

As my user name suggests I may have a bit of experience of what you are trying to do.

Firstly I'd say get the basics right before you experiment. The basic mods are Hi/Los to get the think low, longer bottom arms to give you negative camber, tie rods with enough adjustment to give you decent to in on the front.

As for bushes I run standard ones and it handles fine. Some guys have nolethane but not sure if it makes that much difference. If you have to buy new bushes may as well try the nolethanes.

I don't know of anyone in Victoria that has moved their top arm (too much work for little gain) .

The main thing is to get the car how you like to drive it. Some guys have Mini's that understeer a little, others like a wildly oversteering car. If you know someone that can lend you an adjustable front end then fit that and go for a test day so you can play around with settings.

Shock rates are also important so you need adjustable shockers. I find with these don't go too hard as the harder you go seems to give less grip after a certain point.

Hope this helps,

HRS
Author:  Minimad [ Mon May 24, 2004 11:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the info :)

We have recently had a few of the 'old timers' at the club talk about changing the lower control arms up to get a better geometry when the car was wildly lowered.(This was back in the mid 60's!!!)

I think you are right in saying that I should first work out what set up works for me before spending the time and energy on a modification that may not help at all :shock:

My current road car is set up with an excessive amount of oversteer....more for fun than outright handling :lol:

I was planning to build a car from scratch, but am now thinking that I will pick up somebody elses project (hopefully at the right price) and muck with it until I get a handle on the whole race seen.

Then build exactly what I want a few years down the track 8)

Do you run the whole straight cut gear setup?.....I was planning to start with a rebuilt cooper S box with a X pin comp diff (3.7)

In the rules it secifically rules out rose jointed suspension, But if you keep the original type joints, can it be adjustable?? :roll:
See this link http://www.ratcliffe1633.freeserve.co.uk/bottomarm-4.jpg
What do you think, a possibility??? These are only new in England.

Craig
Author:  Rupert [ Tue May 25, 2004 8:18 am ]
Post subject: 
RE: lower arms, you can't use adjustables. So depending on your tyres will depend on the negative camber required. eg Hoosiers 1.5, radials up to 4.
Either buy fixed arms or get the pick up points moved. Talk to Ken at Accurate Suspension in Woodridge he is able to move the suspension points.

Use Hydro top arms in the dry subframe. Just drill them out for the shockie mount.

Hi Lows are now allowed in Nb.

Get some adjustable shockies.

And you may even use sway bars (from K-Mac)

When you refer to the club I hope your referring to the Historic Racing Club of Qld and not some ordinary Mini club. Join the HRCC and get the correct info.

The "s" box wil be fine but get Fred Sayers (Wavell Hieghts) to make you up a cone LSD. Only about $400.
Author:  Minimad [ Tue May 25, 2004 4:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
I am just asking all the questions before I start building anything!!!(Read->spend any money!)

I am currently a member of the Mini Owners Club, but since they let the CAMS insurance go :cry: , I am definatley joining the HRCC of QLD. :wink:

The old timers were at the mini club, but none of them race now.( I know a few of them do!)

Thanks for all the great info. I have talked to Freddy on the phone before, but not in person.

Went to the Morgan Park at Warwick a couple of weeks ago, and meet a few of the guys in the historic club.
They seem like a pretty good bunch :P

Rupert :arrow:
Are the hydo top arms shorter? (Give more neg camber)
Are you racing or just knowedgeable on the subject?

If you have a car.....are you interested in giving me a few more tips?

I have only ever rallied mini (many years ago!!!) and street driven them, so this is going to be a steep learning curve for me :shock:

Craig
Author:  drmini in aust [ Tue May 25, 2004 10:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hydro top arms are not shorter, but the knuckle joint is further out- increases the spring rate a little if running rubber cones. :wink:
Author:  Rupert [ Wed May 26, 2004 7:21 am ]
Post subject: 
The good Doc speaks the truth re: hydro top arms.

Here is the best tip I can give you re; getting started. If you have the ready neddies buy an ex-racer. You'll save heaps.

I can give you heaps of tips/advice on the subject (without trying to sell you anything!!)

Give me your email address and I'll be in contact.
Author:  HistoricRacingS [ Wed May 26, 2004 5:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rupert has the right idea.
It is definately cheaper (and easier) to get an established car.

If you do go down this route though get the seller to take it to a track and do a number of laps at its full potential. Ask the driver what times it normally does around the track before the session. Time the driver and if he doesn't do the times he's been quoting within one to two seconds don't buy the car!

Racers are notorious for removing "the good bits" from a race car when they sell it. Often they will remove good parts and sell on their car only to build a new one for the next season.

If they do meet the times and you are happy with the performance of the car hand over your money and get possession of the car on the spot. Some dubious racers will remove parts AFTER you have seen the track test.

HRS
Author:  Minimad [ Wed May 26, 2004 5:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Rupert

A PM has been sent. :lol:

Talk to you soon.

Craig
Author:  Minimad [ Wed May 26, 2004 8:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
HistoricRacingS wrote:
Rupert has the right idea.
It is definately cheaper (and easier) to get an established car.

If you do go down this route though get the seller to take it to a track and do a number of laps at its full potential.
HRS


I would be happy to buy an established car, but even so, you would be stripping the engine and box to check it, surely?

I have, over many months, managed to get most of the bits and peices that I would require to build an engine and gearbox to a standard that I would be happy with. I have also met a retired racer that is very willing to teach me the finer points of building a race A series engine. (unfortunatley his were not in a mini!)

I must admit that for me the building of the car will be as satisfing as racing the car, knowing that I have put the car together myself.(I am not looking for the easiest way)

So, yes, buying an ex raced car is the ideal situation. If it didn't have a motor and box.....No problems!!

Now, just to find someone that wants to part with there prized race mini :roll:


Craig

Ps. I have been bitten before with a dodgy race car sale :cry: At least it wasn't a mini!!
Once bitten ......twice shy :wink:
Author:  -=MiniMafia=- [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
to bring a old thread back from the dead, are you now aloud to run adjustable caster and camber bars in Nb?
Author:  girtp [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
You Can run adjustable frt arms and high lows.........
Author:  TK [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
yes now you can. There has been allot of changes since this thread started.
Author:  girtp [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
WOW, Thats a seriously old thread !...... And you right too

Didn't realize...........

Cheers
Author:  Kennomini [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have no idea if it's allowed but......you can always raise the subframe higher into the car. Cut out the cross member enough and re-weld it back up, shorten the tower bolts and mod the front apron mounting points.
I have seen it done on a race mini in a magazine up to 2 inches :wink:
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