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Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
https://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85874		 Page 1 of 8
Author:  BKozan [ Fri May 30, 2014 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
Yep - time to throw around some more money. The other night I installed a rear sway bar and adjustable camber (only) plates, and noticed my cones are hard as a rock, and some of the bushes appear unhappy.
So - the basics. I drive the car every day, but plan to track it as often as possible. I don't want a full race car, but am not fussed about a slightly stiffer ride. The car currently has Hi-Los, rear sway bar, rear camber plates, and poly tie rod bushes fitted.

Questions
  • How noticeable is the extra stiffness in the Road/Rally cones vs the Genuine? (Will the Missus notice?)
  • For a road going car, with a monthly track day, is the "Heavy Duty" front geometry kit worthwhile? Or is the standard a great kit? I prefer to save weight where possible.
  • After installing the front geometry kit, are the lengthened rod ends and offset bushings a good idea? Required?
  • When replacing the rear cones, I think I will drop the radius arms for a bit of a clean up and inspection. Are these items standard consumables that should be replaced, or is it a "not broke, don't fix it" item?
  • --Radius Roller bearing, Radius Bush, Radius Dust Caps.
  • From my research, it seems Bilstein is the bees knees. Are they worth the extra money, are they for sale in Aus, or would you just buy some Gaz or KYB?
  • In order to get the toe settings correct on the rear end, how many of these shims would you take with you to the alignment guy?
  • Is it worth getting the alignment done immediately after installing all of this, or should I wait a number of days (weeks, months?) to allow the new rubber to settle in?

So the whole story is simple. I'm a motorsports junkie and I love my Mini. I want the best of the best for her even though much of it may be "overkill" for a road going car. I understand suspension geometry well enough that I will be happily adjusting settings before I head out on my weekend cruise to the Great Ocean Road, or adjusting the other direction before my long boring cruise to Adelaide. I've got a good grasp of what I want to buy, but am always interested to hear what the gurus have to say - personal experience is always the most valuable tool.

Most importantly, in addition to the questions above - what have I forgot to ask?!? Anything I am overlooking, or should be considering while I am undertaking these jobs?

Thanks guys!
Author:  Harley [ Fri May 30, 2014 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
I don't have much to say on the above, there are plenty of gurus here who can, something that i think you should invest in though is a solid mounting kit for the front subframe, really changes the feel for how the car drives, though there will be a slight increase in engine vibrations.
Author:  BKozan [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
Harley wrote:
I don't have much to say on the above, there are plenty of gurus here who can, something that i think you should invest in though is a solid mounting kit for the front subframe, really changes the feel for how the car drives, though there will be a slight increase in engine vibrations.


When you say solid mounting kit - Full Metal or half? And what's the procedure for changing these out? Is it the kind of thing you can do with the car intact, just leveraging out the subframe enough to slide in the new bits?

Thanks for the suggestion. I had seen these kits but hadn't considered it yet.
Author:  Mick [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
All Australian minis throughout production used a solid subframe mount, no rubber was ever needed, and never noticed as needed really.

I would think long term on the subframe mounts and remove rubber from the equation for good by going the full metal kit.

Quote:
When replacing the rear cones, I think I will drop the radius arms for a bit of a clean up and inspection. Are these items standard consumables that should be replaced, or is it a "not broke, don't fix it" item?
--Radius Roller bearing, Radius Bush, Radius Dust Caps.


A bit of an involved job with a little bit more work than parts replacement. Its easy to remove the radius arm, reasonably easy to replace the needle rollers and bush as well. However the brass bush used one one side of the arm needs to be reamed out. There's a How-To on how to perform this at home but you will need the reamer and extension bar. It may be more suitable to get a pair of exchange radius arms from a mini shop unless you have a yen for garage adventures.

I can't comment on the suspension stuff really. I'm more stock than anything else, but a full alignment would be needed before you went and drove it on the road. It would settle in height once you put the new doughnuts in over the next few months.
Author:  BKozan [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
Mick wrote:
... It may be more suitable to get a pair of exchange radius arms from a mini shop unless you have a yen for garage adventures.


Garage adventures is the name of the game!! Though I must admit, the idea of reaming out bushes certainly sounds like the kind of job I will d**k up the first time. Thanks for the input. I may leave those items for a day when they are actually broken...
Author:  Mick [ Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
BKozan wrote:
Mick wrote:
... It may be more suitable to get a pair of exchange radius arms from a mini shop unless you have a yen for garage adventures.


Garage adventures is the name of the game!! Though I must admit, the idea of reaming out bushes certainly sounds like the kind of job I will d**k up the first time. Thanks for the input. I may leave those items for a day when they are actually broken...



Its worth having a look at them as its not difficult to remove and inspect them. They won't often actually break unless you are rallying or something, but they will pull your car alignment out of shape and cause it to crab up the road wasting all your efforts.

You can slide them off the pin and take a look at the condition of the pin. It will be worn on one side and not the other. Eventually they wear through the needle roller and start ovalising the hole!
Author:  Harley [ Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
BKozan wrote:
When you say solid mounting kit - Full Metal or half? And what's the procedure for changing these out? Is it the kind of thing you can do with the car intact, just leveraging out the subframe enough to slide in the new bits?



I dont do things by halves: thats why i have the full metal kit in mine.
Not hard to change at all really, pull front and rear mounts out, jack up the body an inch to change the tower mounts over, then refit the front ones and finally the back.
Author:  BKozan [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
Woohoo! It's all coming together. Beers and wrenching in Bentleigh, all weekend long if anyone else is as excited as me. :)

Image
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
With new springs you might still need a cone compressor even with the hi-lows all the way down.
Author:  Harley [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
I think he has one in the photo.
Author:  Morris 1100 [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
Harley wrote:
I think he has one in the photo.

I never seen one in a bag before! :lol:
Author:  Bennjamin [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
Morris 1100 wrote:
With new springs you might still need a cone compressor even with the hi-lows all the way down.


its not "might"....its WILL 8)
I put in new red dots into the front of my mini with hi lows all the way down , took quite abit to squeeze them in even after compressed with a tool
Author:  BKozan [ Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
Yep, it's in the bag. Gotta keep it clean to return to it's home in 'better than received' condition. ;)
Author:  MiniBob [ Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
Give me a shout if you are stuck. I would pop up (the missus is working Sat arvo) but I have just been told my hinges are on the way :D
Author:  BKozan [ Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Suspension & Geometry Overhaul
Well, it has begun. I got stuck in last night and figured I could likely get the rear done, as it's the easiest of the two options. But, as usual, my meticulous and pedantic nature kicked in, and the cleaning and scrutinizing has gotten out of control. :)

Quick question about brakes: I already have braided hoses in the front, but haven't done the rear yet. After removing the trailing arm I decided I might as well get the hoses made up, to avoid bleeding again in the future. Question: Has anyone ever removed the final brake pipe (that goes into the drum cylinder), and simply run the braided hose all the way to the cylinder? I figure the fewer connections in the brake system the more reliable it will be.
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