why do you care? the wheels are where it's at....

unless jai has joined a stationary engine club

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You got that right cush

Flywheel readouts are a lot more consistent.

Chassic Dynos can be fiddled with etc etc.

Well done anyway.

But an estimate from Jai would be nice.

jai have you found that paper work for that oil pick up yet

Flywheel HP is the only measure that is consistant (well, much more than rolling road anyway)

Rolling road has FAR too many factors if you want to compare one car to another car... unless they are done on the same day at the same dyno.

I guess there will be those that argue the above, and thats fine... each to their own...

Pete.

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estimated at over 140bhp at the flywheel but if your in the northern hemisphere add GST cos that what they seem to do with there dyno runs.

i know there are a lot of factors that can vary but im not hassles about the couple of percent difference btween dynoes im more concerned that it has been done and can be done again, I ran my race car on the same dyno and ran the same wheels etc to have it beat the single SU by 0.3kw at a higher Rpm range but was beaten hands down throughtout the entire range, kinda tells you something.


so when i go over 110 at the wheels i will be told off again for doing it or will i get a pat on the back and use this knowledge to help others? ill wait to see the response.

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Both flywheel HP and road wheel HP are important, but in different ways. There are a few factors that can give variance in readouts on a road wheel dyno from day to day, and tolerance in the dynos. But drivetrain setup can also really affect your numbers. If Jai were to put his engine on top of a weak old drivetrain, he'd get better numbers than putting it on a stronger drivetrain (like the one I'd imagine he has). It might look more impressive, but anyone with their head screwed on correctly will realize that the person just wants a number, not a real, reliable car.
A strong road diff or a competition diff would have to drain more power than a stock one. I don't know the differences between drivetrains with Minis, but I know that a lot of people reckon that changing from a stock diff to a 9" diff ruins your dyno readouts - driveline losses go from 25% to more like 40+%. So while two blokes may have an engine which makes 300rwhp, if one has a stock diff he's only really got about 400hp at the crank, where the bloke with the 9" has more like 500hp. And his setup will last a lot longer. Mr 400hp will have credit at the pub, but Mr 500hp has a better engine and will enjoy better reliability from his diff. And he'd be the one who you'd listen to when he's giving engine building tips.
Besides that, all the figures you see in magazines and published documents are all flywheel numbers. The old quotes of 30hp for an 850, 44 for a 1098, 55 for a 997/998 Cooper, 63 for an MPI, 75 for a 1275 S, they're all flywheel figures. If you factor in that Jai's got at least 20% (if not more like 30%) drivetrain losses, that puts his number at more like 125-150hp. Which compares well with a 4EFTE at 130bhp stock or a G13B at 100bhp stock - both at the flywheel. Something to think about for those considering conversions. To my mind, numbers like that mean a conversion only really makes sense if you're after a 5 speed gearbox. Or absolutely insane, impossible to control power - go for it if that's what you're after!
Further yet, many ricers out there only know published figures. They forget or don't realize that, yes, their WRX has 155-168KW stock, but it's actually got less than 120KW at the treads...
And the number appears! 140-odd hp - so better than double what it started out with. More than 100bhp/litre. With a single carb and (I presume) a 5 port head. Any number like that is a real credit to the owner and builder. Well done!

thankyou very much.
Ill put up a list of the other cars that also did very very well on the same dyno but none of them are realy standard except the stocko 850 with a staggering 23 at the wheels (from memory) or the 1310's with less than 40 at the wheels.
I agree many different figures can vary readings a lot but as i said ill now rectify the issue on why she wouldnt pull past 80kw at the wheels and stopped at 79.8 (not shown in dyno results cso didnt think it was fair to do so).
fatter fule line and a little more work but i think my exhaust system works well and also the carb is stock stndard befoe you start questioning the creditibily of the system. all the parts can be bought and nothing has been specially made ot make it go faster.

Ill make the full detialed list of what is in the motor if you guys are really interested or do you want me to get the 110 first?????????
give me a few weeks as even tho i won my own dyno i still have to rent a 3phase generator to hook her up to make sure she is good to go.

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I think the real measure of performance is "average horsepower over the rev range" not some peak figure that does not represent how much grunt a motor has.
A good example is a big turbo 4cyl vs a worked big cube V8 both producing 500hp in a similar weighted car. What do you think will be a quicker drive?
So lets not all get hyped over dyno figures they represent max hp, the actual power and torque curves are more important.
Congrats to Jai its an unbelievable achivement to get that figure from a single Su engine, I think he will need to silence the critics with a 1/4 mile timeslip.
Im guessing a high 14sec pass.

This seems very much (especially on the subtle level) to be a GR vs. Jai battle. Eg. Rolling road vs. engine dyno crap.

Why?

Bascially, Jai has built an awesome engine. Done.

I made close to 75hp atws with my engine, which was OK I think, but it runs muhc nicer now, but don't know it it has anymore top end, doubtful. But this compares.

My 75hp atws is probably about 107hp at the flywheel. Jai 105hp atws is about 150hp atws.

150 bananas from an A-series!?! That's double the quoted 1275 S 75hp of stock!

crap yeah what a nice motor!

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1964 Morris 850, 1330 Supercharged - 81.8hp atws.
1975 Leyland Mini S 1100S powered - Nice and reliable.
1977 Leyland Mini LS - Project LS-T

now we're talkin

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the world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page
66 Mini Minor sponsored by http://www.lifeonthehedge.com.au/ The Dog Harness Specialists
It was a pleasure ausmini. I'll miss all you misfits and reprobates

trust me there is no battle between GR and myself as i look at him as a very honerable person who has helped me a lot over the past few years in the short itme i have known him.
He is in Oz and me in NZ but Im not trying to steal the limelight from anyone on this im just trying to show you dont have to have a massive 45 hanging off the back of a poor ol A series to get them to run.

I have converted one person today and he is smiling like you cant believe.
the car is now totally driveable and actually performs better then he has ever had it running.
As for the 1/4mile time the biggest issue is the tree huggin hippies we have hear that dont like loud noises or even racing my closes drag strip is 4.5hrs away and im not going to go just to have a bit of a fling agaisnt some jappas as i would get nailed every time (sure i could upset a lot of them also, (lie the 8th mile when i upset 3 VN commoadores a Corvette stingray and a heap of other relativly quick cars).but I will mkae a plan in the future to go to a drag strip just to satisfy my curiosity also.

slinky form my experience 75 at the wheels is about 93-95 at the flywheels as long as everything is good down stairs.

by the way mine was dont on a stndard GT box (not the cooper S box you guys get there) but a small bearing 1275 GT box that just has closer ratios than a stnadard box.

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flywheel hp may be more consistant, but it's far less relevant...

unless you're:

-An engineer examining the effectiveness of different modifications.

-Comparing the power output of one dynoed engine to another, or

-To use as a starting point of determining driveline losses when you do the chassis dyno.

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Jai, yeah I know there is NO competition between you two, but I jsut got the impression that the comments from other users on here were in ther you vs. Gr format, I guess you could say.

The drivetrain loss issue, eg whether it's 20% or 30%, well from some of the results I've seen on here, of dyno days, there is a big different between flywheel and wheels, close to 40% loses for one person. Which is odd. I like ATWs numbers it gives you a direct indication of who's car is faster, not whose has more power.

Back again on topic, I still can't believe jsut how great you engine is. The torque curve is perfect, and cosistent, power is massive, and there is obvious high rpm fueling issues so a higher max hp figure is obtainable!!!!

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1964 Morris 850, 1330 Supercharged - 81.8hp atws.
1975 Leyland Mini S 1100S powered - Nice and reliable.
1977 Leyland Mini LS - Project LS-T

not like your inverse torque curve, tim...

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