I recently came across a 1968 Mk1 owned by a client (also a friend) of a mechanic near Pymont.

The mechanic used to work on this car so he knows about it. I asked him to keep an eye for me on the market so he did and recommened me to this car once he knew the client wanted to sell it. The mechanic said this car is very original. The car has been owned by the client for 4-5 years and he it bought from Mini and Moke World as a project car for $7000. Engine was fully rebuilt by Mini and Moke World for $6000. His client also sources original parts for it as the project went on and later he asked this mechanic near Pymont to do the head for him, etc..


I believe this would be a good opportunity as this is a very original car by looking at the engine and vin no and a few things(hoses, screws for the lights, etc) for a Mk1. The only thing that would not be original is the roof color as the original car dun come with it.


The seller of this car sent me a link to look and said it is a good car (and he likes red) though a few things might not be original. He said he could help to source parts for me.

I also ask the mechanic about this red car and he said if I go for originality, go for his client's one but then the red car is a good car too he said, just not as original as his client's one.

So which one would you pick? I got the blue car (the mechanic's client car) checked by Greig Malure for about 40-45 mins this evening and I paid him liek 120. He took it for a drive, torch it and look in the engine bay and everywhere, the usual areas. He told me it should be no problem.


Also Greig told me MK1 would be a bit harder to drive than modern manual cars as it uses some sort of synchromesh, double clutching mechanism...dunno what that is so I am about to google it. Dunno if I could drive it back from near Pymont..so googling it now to see what it is. So any help, suggestions?

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1964 Morris Mini 850 - G13b gti powered - classic yet practical
1968 Morris Minimatic - 1100cc - classic & breakable
Sun Certified Java Programmer v5 310-055

A very nice guy who knows a lot about original Minis I met @ Motorfest last time just rang me after he saw this post. He is very eager to help out to look at the car for me and check it all out to make sure I am getting a good original car. He also said can help me drive it back and let me know how to deal with the synchromesh thing as well. At no costs.

How many people can you find on Earth who are so nice ? Not many. Thanks heaps and heaps. I will definiately buy you beer or/and dinner. You are a cool dude..and a true enthusiast!

Ben

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1964 Morris Mini 850 - G13b gti powered - classic yet practical
1968 Morris Minimatic - 1100cc - classic & breakable
Sun Certified Java Programmer v5 310-055

I think (may be wrong) that the main difference with the gearbox is synch on first gear, and in a mk1, no synch on 1st.

Meaning that you can't go from 2nd to 1st whilst moving (like trying to get into reverse when rolling forwards), but from your post - a double shuffle gear change may allow this.


Double shuffle or double clutching is simply, whilst driving in second and slowing down, put you foot on the clutch, put the gear into neutral, let the clutch out, tap the throttle, clutch in, engage first.

You've probably heard that "rev" between gears on cars going fast into corners, slowing quickly. I guess it gives everything in the box time to synch a little better. You can, if you have too, drive a manual with no clutch. Requires timing, correct revs and the right pressure on the gearstick.

Both those minis look very neat! Good luck with choosing!

you can slam it into first crunchily, or you can match the revs to the estimated revs that 1st gear would be doing at the speed you are currently travelling and you should be able to slide it in.

wow i would get that mark2 its bewdiful!

I don't know if this works or not as I have never driven a MK1 before but general with most manual cars this does work and also puts less stress on the gearbox, whether you're changing up or down and makes the change smoother. Done quickly it may also make acceleration quicker as well, so I'm told.

you might be thinking about flatshifting, where you keep the throttle nailed while you change the gear..
good way to fry your clutch

Maybe I should have explain better, I meant no accelerator pedal as you take the clutch out and as you push it in again as you change into the gear tap the accelerator pedal at the same time allow the mechanical parts to spin freer.

I agree flat shifting definitely a good way of ruining a perfectly good clutch

Mk1 gearbox - no syncro on 1st gear.
The downshift from 2nd to first is either:-

only change to first when you are at a complete stop

or whats called double declutching.

clutch in
gearstick from second to neutral
clutch out
rev engine
clutch in and gearstick to 1st

the trick is when changing from second to first you are usually under brakes as well, ie right foot on the brake pedal. So how do you rev the engine with your foot on the brake?
Heel and toe. You use the toe end of your foot on the brake, and with a bit of a twist of your ankle you can hit the accelerator with the heel of your right foot.

Its still a bit of a pain to do this in stop start traffic.

Cheers,
Ray.

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68 Morris Minimatic - Blue/White


29 Chev tourer
31 A Coupe
63 Anglia
63 VW Beetle
69 VW Beetle convertible
89 Daihatsu Charade
03 Mitsubishi Mirage
07 Nissan Micra

MK1 minis had a 3 synchro gearbox (with synchromesh on the top 3 gears) as opposed to the later 4 syncho boxes (with s.mesh on all gears). Synchromesh matches the speed of the output shaft and the gear allowing the gear to "mesh" - thats when your gear is engaged and is transmiting power to the wheels.

It basicaly just makes it easier on you to engage a particular gear w/o having to match the engine revs to precisely what they should be at that speed of movement. Otherwise you have to double declutch (aka heel-in-toe shift) to downshift gears. So with a 3 synchro box downshifting from 2nd to 1st gear will require some skill (or you'll have to stop, engage 1st and get off again).

You'll find that many classic car owners double declutch anyway for a variety of reasons. A. when mastered correctly its a safer and more efficient way to drive, you reduce your speed with the gearbox as well as the brakes, and by traveling down through the gears you make sure that you are always in an optimal gear to battle traffic and even escape dangerous situations on the road (speed at the right time can deffinitely be a safety measure too).
B. You'll find that the old synchromesh assemblies were not as reliable and robust as the modern ones and double declutching was seen as a way to protect the sychromesh and ensure the longevity of the box, plus many mini owners learned to drive on cars with busted synchros (whether in the 60/70s when most cars had no synchro on the bottom gears anyway or with a classic these days) and its a skill that stays with you.
C. The mini 1st gear synchro was never properly implemented anyway (Isigonis famously thought it'd cause a rise in insurance claims as drivers would abuse their gearboxes) and finding 1st gear w/o "heel in toeing" even on a 4 synchro car isn;t easy.

So anyway an MK1 3 synchro box is a more primitive version of the same mini box. It will be much easier to use if you learn to double declutch (which you should be doing anyway with a mini) and might be a bit more of a pain in the arse in slow traffic (but then all minis are). On the other hand they are known as more robust boxes, there's less to go wrong and they are popular in competition.

The $20-24k asking price (which usualy mean that the owner has already resolved to agreeing to the $20k mark) is a premium price but is fair for an Mk1 in a good condition. But you'll be asking for receipts of all work carried out including a professional paint job (though a lot couldve been done to the poor engine\box between the rebuild and now).

you can double clutch on upshifts, but i think its time consuming and its not really needed even on a mini box.

i always heel toe or just approximately revmatch the lower gear (without braking) on downchanges in my mini or any other manual car.

you don't have to use the clutch to downchange at all synchro or not

you pop it out of gear no clutch,
you then press the accelerator and try to revmatch the gear you want while gently pressing the gearlever against the gate of the selected gear until you get the revs right and it should slide in.

guys, double clutching serves no purpose on upshifts as the gears are spinner slower when you go up the next gear - tapping the accelerator (with the clutch pedal in) will also do nothing but rev the motor because it is disconnected from the drive train.

To understand it a bit better think of why you are doing it - to match the speed of the gear with the higher ratio - this puts alot less stress on the box.

To do so there are a few steps..

1. Clutch Pedal IN
2. Gear Stick to Neutral
3. Clutch Pedal OUT
4. Match the Revs with the next gear;
5. Clutch Pedal IN
6. Grab Lower gear
7. Clutch Pedal OUT

All done a a reasonable pace, especially steps 4-7

I have seen many people simply put the clutch in, leave it in - rev the car, put it in gear and let the pedal out. This is not double clutching and you are still relying on the syncro to match the gear speed!

Also using the engine to brake is a bad habit to get into (at fast speeds) - GR once told me brakes are for stopping not gearboxes - you could see many racers on the track at the end of a straight going from 4th to 3rd using the gearbox to help slow them down and it sounds aweful..

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

Re: the car - just beware of No buisiness names please Josh world - they have produced some questionable stuff over the years and we all know how pedantic you are ben. Especially when you're looking at that kind of money.

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Starlet Conversion:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15484

yeah double clutching on upchange
is for trucks without synchromesh, so you double clutch it and wait for the revs to drop lower for the higher gear.

at one point i had no synchro on 2nd going up or down, and i had to double clutch to go up, and i just heeltoed going down.

i agree totally with ya josh
you might find your engine breaking if you use it for braking.

Ben , it's a very nice looking mini there's no doubt about it . For that sort of money though I would be getting someone who really know's Mk 1 cooper S's to check it thoroughly for originality . Also , how long ago was the motor rebuilt and how often is the mini used ? Also what do you want to do with it , use it regularly or once amonth or so ? The tyres on it look older (quite possibly the originqal type) and may not stand up to regular use if you are used to modern cars/tyres so best to keep them in a safe place and put some modern tyres on another set of wheels and keep the cooper S steelies and tyres for shows etc . What's the comment about the roof colour not being original , is that accroding to the ID plate or someones oppinion ?

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Oh wow! A lot of info and input there you guys have made. Thanks heaps
and heaps.

I am reading and trying to digest the things. I beleived it will be
a bit of learning curve for me. But bear with my awful/stupid questions
as I am just a beginner Since the last 2 weeks I have been
going to book shops in city and reading for books about Minis History and
whatnot and it's quite an enjoyment with learning things. And yes, I am
a cheap arse cus I read it and didn't buy it. I know you would said it
Josh so I say it for you.




Yes, I got Greig to look at it already, myself looked at it, and a guy
I met at Motorfest will go with me on Sat to look at it as well.
Believe me he's a genious at this.

I think the Motor was rebuilt about 3-4 years ago by Mini and Moke
World and is a full/somplete nuts and bolt work. I will only use it for
show or club events and also as an investment. 100% not gonna use it like
a modern daily driver, so will just use it once a month. Yes, I think
he is gonna give me a pair of steelies +tyres(might charge me extra,
have to find out) and an extra set of modern wheels and tyres. Yes,
Steelies will only be for shows. The ID plate didn't say it has white roof so
the roof color on it is not original. Other parts are. There is also a
number on the radiator I will need the guy who is going with me this
Sat to look at it for me cus I am uncertain about how to look at this
number.




Josh, I dun mind you always throwing the word "pedantic" at me over and over again. I am not offended at all but just curious about what's going on.

It is hard to define a fine line between enthusiasm and pedantic. It's just way too hard. To be an enthusiast, you will try to find out as much info as possible like their history, their every bits of information that will eventually lead you to restore successfully the Mini to its original specs; conditions and whatnot. And beleive me it 's a hell of big job just to dig out all those info alone and doing it is even harder, and you dun do it once to get it right since there are some misleading info out there as well. Even though I am a beginner at this, I know it's hard if your want it original. Remember Minis are classic cars so being original and close to 'just-out-of-factory' condition tend to be more favourable IMO.

But I am not saying "inventing" your own car is any bad and I didn't mean in anyway that conversions are worthless, I like them quite a lot too, it should be fun and its gives more power. But sometimes you just have to respect other people's taste. If someone ask you about why you put a starlet engine into a 70s car, and then goes to say your pedantic and ask won't it be any different like putting a Ferrari engine into a Honda Civic shell? What would you say???

How's your car going anyway? Seems people are getting impatient with it. C'mon hurry up, get it done and let us see.

_________________
1964 Morris Mini 850 - G13b gti powered - classic yet practical
1968 Morris Minimatic - 1100cc - classic & breakable
Sun Certified Java Programmer v5 310-055