I made this on the weekend - really simple, not particularly efficient when compared with the outputs claimed by the plans we have for the complex version (which we're collecting the parts for)

however, this little thing ran my mates V8 Range Rover at idle for 30-40 minutes, with no petrol at all (fuel line disconnected). The water didn't run out, it's just that we got bored of just having it idle. Gas analyser was up it's bum with no odd emissions. The range rover is a thirsty bugger, even at idle, can't complain so far

We couldn't rev it because the vacuum was sucking the sides of the plastic container in, and then the water into the intake at any more than idle, so version 2 is being made out of a coffee jar, with some sort of splash guard over the outlet, and sturdier material inside to wrap the wire around

(There was a version 0 that was a glass jar, but I ignited it and blew the lid of the jar to bits)

I don't claim that it'll run a car in all circumstances with no petrol at all, but I'm willing to give it a try, even if I was to get another 5-10mpg out of my brick, I'd be stoked

_________________
did I tell you that I won a trophy?

so what is it and what does it do?

_________________

hydrogen generator - makes hydrogen from water, you connect it to your inlet manifold and air intake, the engine burns hydrogen instead of (or as well as) petrol

_________________
did I tell you that I won a trophy?

Unless the laws of physics and thermodynamics are incorrect (specifically friction and heat losses), there is no possible way it can work. It is like perpetual motion machines. They are not possible and there is no way they will ever work. Ask yourself this: If this does work, why are car manufacturers not using this technology? and why do over 99% of cars not use the technology either. Basic economics indicates that if this worked in any way shape or form, people would be using it, as would companies and car manufacturers.

_________________
Before you judge someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you judge them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.

I don't need to ask myself those questions - I have people like you asking them.... I prefer to ask "why are there so many people saying it's possible, are they full of crap, or are they on to something?" - instead of jumping up and down and saying it's not possible, I'll just give it a go myself - simple. Like I said, if it saves me 5 or 10mpg by running it with Petrol, then I'm ahead 5 or 10mpg, aren't I...

the number of people who have made these sort of alternate fuel systems over the years would astound you.... and all of them have been bought off and/or shut up by the big oil companies. My good friend and I know people personally who have been.... the times have changed, the internet has made this information widely available, and with the push for alternate fuels, hybrid cars etc. etc. coming from governments and the public all over the world, they can't keep it quiet any more

did you know that Mazda had an RX7 in Australia in 1979 that ran off pure hydrogen? We found that out via the inspector from the alternate fuels registration board who used to work for them...

the discussion started up again via the Electric conversion being done at the moment by 'cooper69' here:
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42150

_________________
did I tell you that I won a trophy?

Well, you don't need to worry about being ahead, you will not save yourself any fuel. The most you will achieve is to corrode your exhaust with the water that is the product of burning oxygen. Some people may have been bought out by oil companies, but they wouldn't have had to buy out this technology that you are using, because it doesn't work. The only way it can possibly work is by the hydrogen somehow making the fuel burn more completely or more smoothly which I don't see as being possible.

Yes, cars can run off hydrogen, it is a perfectly valid fuel. No, you cannot split it using your battery then burn it again for a net power gain. You are using your battery to split it, then using the power from burning it to power your alternator to charge the battery again. As stated earlier in this thread, you cannot gain power like this. You split the hydrogen at 95% efficiency, burn it at 95% efficiency, and charge your battery using your alternator at 95% efficiency you lose 27% of your power (0.95x0.95x0.95 = 0.729). That is a best case scenario, it is very unlikely that you would reach anything like this efficiency.

_________________
Before you judge someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you judge them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.

have you done it?

do you have first hand experience?

have you proven in practise that it cannot work?

_________________
did I tell you that I won a trophy?

As everyone is no-doubt aware (due to my previous posts in this thread) I don't personally believe that this is viable or that you will get any benefit out of it.

Good on you for trying it out though. Many great discoveries have been made due to someone trying something that would 'never work'.

It will be an interesting project anyway, regardless of the outcome, and it will be interesting to see your results.

Did you have to make any changes to the ignition timing or anything on the Land Rover or did you just connect it up and run it? I would think that changes would be necessary. What year is the Land Rover?

Edit: oh, Range Rover. I can see why you would be want to improve fuel economy on one of them

Nope, nope and nope.

I haven't proven in practice that a car won't run on straight water either though. Physics and thermodynamics tell me it won't as water doesn't burn to produce energy, so I am not going to waste my time trying to make it work.

_________________
Before you judge someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you judge them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.

thank you Richard

yeah, Range Rover... '82 ish from memory. No changes at all, other than disconnecting the fuel line - it was just a 'chuck it on and see' exercise. Since the container was collapsing, we couldn't really do much else until I've made a new one

one of the stories told about someone who was bought out and then disappeared was about a bloke from Mt Beauty in the 80's who had a XY (ish) falcon that he ran on Methane. The Methane was produced from household waste (and maybe some other gunk), which was consumed by bacteria of some sort that gave off the Methane as it ate the waste. The rate of production was governed by the environment where the bugs were housed, temperature controlled etc. Story is that when he drove from Mt Beauty to Wodonga, the bugs produced more methane than the car could use, and he had a tank in the car where the excess was stored

_________________
did I tell you that I won a trophy?

Yeah, that methane one would work, because it is using a separate fuel source, not just using a reaction one way then the other to try to produce power.

Another thing that may work is injecting a little bit of water in with the fuel. This has been used many times before to run cars on stupidly high turbo boost and the water stops pre-detonation (pinging) by making the fuel less volatile so it won't explode when it is compressed so highly.

The theory behind using it to save fuel is that when the fuel explodes the water boils and expands, helping to apply some force to the piston, and that it also makes the fuel burn slower and more evenly, applying more of an even force to the top of the piston rather than a bit more of an impact force as the fuel ignites (the impact force causes some energy to be wasted).

_________________
Before you judge someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you judge them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.

They said that to Alexander Graham Bell didnt they!

"No Alexander, it is impossible to send one's voice from one house to another through a tiny set of wires - preposterous, impossible I tell you"

And so the story goes....................................

Prove em wrong Simon.

_________________
"Not Speeding Officer..........Qualifying"

Hey Simon, I do understand what everyone is saying about energy use and how you cannot create energy but I also think if science was in a bottle, we as society havent even taken off the lid yet so go for it.

For your invention you could have a battery pack in your car which you charge at night which then ran your hydrogen generator whilst you are driving. This way you are creating a zero emissions vehicle (if alternative power is used for charging eg wind solar) and if charged by normal power your car would probably be alot more efficient in terms of energy use than a standard car as coal powered generators in power plants are very efficient compared to internal cobustion engines

Good stuff mate

Phill

_________________
KillaWatt Converions


"E"Mini, 144volt, 600 amp, 86kw from the get go

Remember old Chinese proverb says, “Men who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those doing it.”
Go for it Simon.

_________________
Member VMCI #19