That one is just a later Aussie 850 , couple of thousand bodies later than yours and nowhere near as early as he claims .

As for the engine numbers , I never knew the numbers we got from the UK were specifically Austin numbers but all Aussie 850's (van's included) got the 8AM/U/H engine number prefix up until mid 1963 (from memory) and then went to the Australian "made" prefix of 8Y/U/H .

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Heres the latest from the 1959 Register concerning engine numbering for Austin and Morris

Quote:
"I have been reading up in more detail regarding engine numbers.The trouble is different books seem to give conflicting infomation. I have now come across a list of engine prefixes as follows

850cc.

8A Austin up to 25000 ( some numbered 8AM )
8MB Morris up to 25000
8AM Austin and morris 25000 onwards ( approx mid 1960 )

It seems therefore that I got it wrong and in mid 1960 both Austin and Morris were using the same engine prefix 8AM. Sorry about that. Regarding the early 59 / 60 cars, the Austin and Morris were numbered 8A and 8MB respectivley. However I have 2 Austin 1959 cars, one built 16th July and one 17th July. The first one is 8A-U-H-764 and the other 8AM-U-H-789. Both have original engine plates and both numbers are on the original documents. Typical BMC. Often things are not what they seem.

Anyway it seems that after engine number 25000 all Austins and Morris's had 8AM prefixes."

OK , that fit's in with the local cars , there's a hell of a lot of misinformation out there and a lot of the UK stuff doesn't work for us since their production started earlier and also they stopped using the mk1 style shell early whereas we kept it going up till the last clubman shaped mini (mk1 with a clubman nose on it ) .

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Stick to the subject ohhhh postally verbose one...don't matter what body the engine went into its the origin of the engine that is the issue in this case....so there may still need to be more explanation to come from the UK (on the 8AM issue for example).

If an engine was sourced from the UK (as they were in the early days until production commenced in Oz) then it may be possible to extract more info from the Brits....for instance, did they have a "for export" modification to their numbering system

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"Show me the Mini!"

I have have a similar email but from another bloke in England. He said that the eng. no.'s were s all 8AM in March/April 60. He says that my car is definately a Morris, and the 49903 is the chassis no.
The production figures from April 60 to May 61 are Austin 96,701 and Morris 45,545. I.E. Austin app. 8000/mth Morris 3,700/mth. This works out that my no. 49903 was built app. oct 1960. Again he also said about the eng. no. for app. dating.
He belives that there were complete cars and some unfinished cars sent to Aust to help kick start sales until C.K.D. was in full production.
there may have been complete cars sent out after C.K.D production started due to supply problems in England. At this time B.M.C had thousands stock piled due to poor sales, and export helped to reduce stocks of finished cars.
He wanted to know if we had details[chassis no's on firewall] on the early cars inregards to
1 door hinges[brass or cast]
2 rear window latches [type]
3 rear arms [cast or fabricated]
4 Suspension trumpets. Alum. ones fitted in may 1961.
5 mudguards [ concave or convex curve between headlight and bonnet]
It looks that there could be cars that were made after start of C.K.D that were sent to Aust complete, and these may have come from stock pile and could have early bits on them.
The 9/***** no's on these cars may have been issued to the cars for Aust as they may have been Austins rebadged as Morris's .This might have helped them to identify them. We could have cars with a higher chassis no. which we Austins rebadged that could be late 60 early 61. The componets will be on way of checking along with eng. no.
I am going to try British Heritage with Morris prefix MA2S4 infront of 49903 and see what they come up with. If they do not have a no. that they recognise then they won't have any info.
Even with all their records it is still confusing.
P.S. Wild willie's car is only 140 later than mine by no. stamped on fire wall. My eng no. is 114264. What is the eng.no of yor car.

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Research is the difference between speculation and investment. Anyone who copys some one else will always be second
www.minisprintgt.com

Marvellous stuff David....and not to mention the number of personal imports which would have been a whole lot easier than the excreta-fight it has become these days...these could number in the hundreds alone.

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"Show me the Mini!"

Engine number is 8AM U H\115131

When I get a chance I will check my car to confirm all the early bits. Can confirm:
Sun visors, corrugated black plastic door kick panels, brass door hinges, rear quater light catches, front guard shape on the remaining guard. This will test the skills of my bodywork guy! Getting the matching shape in the new guard!!!

Australian assembled cars would have been painted in colours selected by BMC Australia. e.g. I don't believe Orient Red was ever available as an English colour scheme. English Grey may have been but it was definitely an Australian colour as well.
This means that my car at least was assembled here unless it came here as a primed only assembled shell.

Anther anomaly is the door kick panels. It appears that onlt Morris' had the balck plastic type (until chassis number 139124, late 60 / early 61 ) while Austins always had the aluminium ones we are most familiar with.
This would indicate that our cars (both having the black plastic kick panels) were originally produced by Morris and not out of the Austin Longbridge plant.

I have been given a contact in BMH to see if they can help source more archive info about the exported cars and kits. Will keep all informed.

Not necessarily. My Traveller came out of longbridge but has the black plastic kick panels.

I'm very intrigued about the convex/concave shaped bit in the corner of the front panels, is this for real? I'd better go and have another look at my Traveller.

Tim

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1951 Morris Commercial J Type Van
1955 BSA C11G
1961 Morris Mini Traveller
1969 Triumph TR6R
1977 Leyland Moke Californian

Hi Tim.

Just an aside, according to Graham Robson, in his recent book on the Mini, all the Mini commercials assembled in the UK came from Longbridge, with the bodies for the van and estate models being built by Fisher & Ludlow at their Castle Bromwich plant, then sent to Longbridge for final assembly.

Cheers,
Watto.

Very interesting watto. I knew Fisher and Ludlow had built the elf/hornet bodies but not the estates.

I asked the guys on the Mk1 Mini forum how you could tell whether a UK Mini of that era was assembled at Longbridge or Cowley and didn't get much of a reply apart from "I don't think you can". Probably because so much of the substructures of the body shells were being built all over the place.

I went and looked at My Traveller at lunch time. I can't really draw any conclusions about the shape of the front between the headlights and grille, they are both a bit ripply and may even have bog in them. I had an old Deluxe that had one side a perfect convex bulge and the other side concave ripply and bogged. I think if the convex area cops a hit, it would take a very skilled panel beater to get it back to the correct shape, so I'm still uncertain as to what my Traveller should really look like. Time to get on to the Mk1 forum again.


Tim

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1951 Morris Commercial J Type Van
1955 BSA C11G
1961 Morris Mini Traveller
1969 Triumph TR6R
1977 Leyland Moke Californian

I have doubts about any complete cars or complete bodies coming to Australia.
The reason for the CKD cars in Australia was not because BMC wanted to. It was because of Australia's tariff regulations. Any complete bodyshells imported would have attracted the full import duty that would not have applied to the CKD cars. This duty would have more than doubled the cost of an imported bodyshell.
BMC Australia was very experienced at building CKD cars. I don't think that they would have needed any complete Mini shells to show them how to build one from a kit. The Mini was fairly simple compared to some of the cars that they were making.

Hi Tim;

Interesting to hear about your kick panels, as you know my Countryman is a week earlier than yours and has the aluminium ones, and they seem original.

Garry

Hi Tim;

Interesting to hear about your kick panels, as you know my Countryman is a week earlier than yours and has the aluminium ones, and they seem original.

Garry

The differences in the mudguards can be seen in the pics I put on the previous page with some measurements. When you take measuments follow the contour and use a fiberglass dress-maker's tape. It is a lot more accurate.
My car has a convex on right hand side and concave on the left. You will find that the curve between the guard and windscreen panel is different between the two types. Also the curve of the windscreen panel where it curves down to the side seam is also different.The early car the curve is alot sharper.
It appears that there was a difference in panels but no;one is exactly sure when the change occured. They think about early 1961. I think that the C.D.K had the new type of panels. It would be interesting to find the earlyist C.D.K. and check for changes. If these cars were made from panels sent from England in oct/nov 1960 then they could be older style.
It is interesting to see that wild willies car has the same bits as mine. His car is only 140 after but the engine is 867 later. This could be because in sept/oct 1960 the production of traveller and countryman started.
Wild willie have you checked to see if the rear arms on your car are fabrecated type. Have a look at the pics I posted and you can clearly see the difference. Do you have mis-matching mudguards. If so which side is not the correct one. I have found two more early cars and one is badly rusted so I may use it for parts.
I have looked at a very interesting video on you tube. "building a baby austin 7 mk1 mini B.M.C longbrige. Part 1& 2. If you freeze frames you can see a lot of the differences on these cars. I think that it was done before may 1961 because they are still fitting fabricated trumpets. Alum. ones after this date. I loved their test run. They flogged the guts out of them on a set of rollers.
I was talking to my father yesterday and he was chief design engineer for British Tube Mills here in Aust. He can remember his involvment with B.M.C here in Aust. He reminded me that during christmas/newyear 1960/61 he was visiting BMC as B.T.M.[bundy tubing] manufactured a lot of componets for the mini. He can remember visiting when they were setting up production line. He seems to think that BMC had a few finished cars that were dismantled for componet manufacture here in Aust. before production started. Bundy Tubing in England were making similar parts for BMC England. The brakelines,fuel lines in England were a copperplated type tube ,but in Aust they were tin plated.[something I have to check on my car.]
In regards to the tarrifs as BMCwas going to expand here in Aust. then I bet the gov. would have flex the rules to help them set-up expansion. If production of CDK started early 61 then these parts would have left England at least by end of oct. to allow for handling, shipping and import clearances etc.
I think that we should start to make a listing of no's and model changes on the early cars so that identification is easier in the future. Who knows what. other old minis are waiting to be found

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Research is the difference between speculation and investment. Anyone who copys some one else will always be second
www.minisprintgt.com

Garry, I seem to recall that the black kick panels were on early Morris' in the UK and the Silver on Austins. Later (early 61?) they standardised on all silver.

I take it that your Countryman is an Austin?

There were some odd little rivets used on these early ones too, a PITA to get out without breaking them!

The black kick plates are quite rare, probably more over here than left in UK now!

Cheers

Graham

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Sir Alec! we are not worthy!