Sorry folks, just on this emissions topic again (apologies, but its a personal crusade for me). This, off the Wikipaedia website. It is regarding the 2008-2009 model Hayabusa, please note the comments on emissions compliance. This just goes to prove, that motorcycle engines and hence their manufacturers, are subject to the same emissions regulations are as other vehicle manufacturers.

[edit] 2008

2008 Hayabusa has Competition in the hyper sport bike segment increased with the release of motorcycles like the Kawasaki Ninja ZX-14 and BMW K1200S. This increased competition led to Suzuki heavily revising the GSX1300R for the 2008 model year.[3] Suzuki has dropped the GSX1300R designation in some countries and simply called the motorcycle the Hayabusa. The engine size was increased to 1349 cc (82.3 cu in) with the compression ratio increasing to 12.5:1. The revised engine has a claimed 12% increase in power to 194 hp (145 kW).[4][5]

Fuel is now fed through a pair of new 44 mm (1.7 in) Suzuki Dual Throttle Valve (SDTV) throttle bodies. The Suzuki Drive Mode Selector (S-DMS), a technology introduced on the GSX-R line of motorcycles, provides three options of power delivery for a range of touring to wide open high performance. Some of the more notable features include a new 4-2-1-2 exhaust system meets Euro 3 and EPA Tier 2 emission regulations, a slipper clutch, and redesigned bodywork.

The motorcycle in stock form is capable of the following performance:

1/4 mile (402 m): 9.34 seconds @ 149.7 mph (241 km/h)[citation needed]
0–60 mph: 2.49 seconds[citation needed]
0–180 mph: 15.9 seconds[citation needed]
Top speed: 188 mph (303 km/h) electronically restricted

For thiose who want to see it first hand, go here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Hayabusa

Gents - I think its time to start scouring the motorcycle wreckers!!!

Good luck,
Tricky

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"Not Speeding Officer..........Qualifying"

For those that want to keep the bike gearbox, what is done to soften the load on the box from the direct drive to wheels?

bikes have a cush drive in the rear wheel hub to prevent harsh lashing on the gearbox during throttle/gear changes....

Good point Squid.

I have driven a few SR3 Radicals and they dont have any cushioning of the drive train at all, and we thrash them to no end.

I have never heard of a gearbox or a diff failure on a bike-engined Mini due to fatigue or abuse - yet!

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"Not Speeding Officer..........Qualifying"

Good researching Tricky.

As soon as QT give the nod that these will be acceptable, I'll join the bandwagon and turn one of my shells into a weekend and track day machine. It would be a space-frame ICV with mini body just to keep the rain off & hold up the windscreen.

Personally, and despite the obvious disadvantages of the heavy driveline, I think I prefer the front engine, rear drive set-up. My skills aren't up to a rear engine & rear drive set up with the potential for snap oversteer. I know this from my rather average performace at the track days I have been to.

So, Matt, we can make a Front/Front, a Front/Rear and a Rear/Rear version. Who will be the first to finish? (hint: not me...)

Mark.

In think we should make it a colaborative approach. As in, one-in-all-in! We could get it done soooooooo much quicker that way.

Imagine the data we could get out of this - for R&D purposes of course!

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"Not Speeding Officer..........Qualifying"

Gentlemen,,, We Can Do Anything

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

DAMN right Matt. OK lets start compiling a list of things that have to be worked out in regards to transport regs right thru to the engineering problems that will be encountered.

From my experience with roller chain drive systems i think that a high velocity chain would be better. They are just a steel version of a toothed flat rubber drive belt.

The only thing I could see a problem with roller chain is that to obtain the max required wheel speed with the gearing then, the mass of the car and the traction of the wheels is greater than a bike single rear wheel. A bike wheel has bigger circumference and therefore the chain is travelling slower. With the mini wheel the drive sprocket will be smaller to get the wheel RPM and the chain will travel faster and have much higher torque load. This can be worked out easily. Just need to know the difference in diameter of wheel and the number of teeth on the primary sprocket.

The issue with a cush drive to soften the impact on the chain is one way to overcome this. A few very powerful drag bikes have a toothed belt drive. The belt will take the shock loads where a chain will not, but how long a belt would last.

The reverse gear has a few different ways that it could be over come to still be driven via the prime mover. It is a matter of looking at the various methods people have found so far to work out cost/method

Matt that damn V8 engine is making me think!!!!!!!

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Research is the difference between speculation and investment. Anyone who copys some one else will always be second
www.minisprintgt.com

hee hee,,, David,,, i`ve been thinking about it for about 25 years since the very first suzuki GSX750R V8 powerplant was produced in the states... But i had already started work on my P76 V8 adaptor package into the mini,,, & was also in the middle of shoving another P76 V8 into the back of my kombi ute , Racing another P76 V8 in my off-road Buggy etc et5c etc,,, so it stayed just as thought for quite a few years,,, then when i started on the Bimmer conversion,,, well,,, i have quite a few engines here you see

I feel that ,,,since the Pohms have been playing with chain drive bike engine stuff in minis & other cars for literally years & years ---> check out all the grass-track racers that use them & have done for a be-squillion years, that a std (Large O-ringed X-Link chain) will suffice,,, easy enough & cheap enough to change out on a yearly basis, No-problem

I also believe that """IF""" the whole car is kept as light as possible & """IF"""" the driver was nice & casual & gentle,,,, & """IF""" we used some sort of "Urathane" type coupling fitted to the drive sproket on the reverse gearbox/diff assy,,,, then all should be well & good in my books,,, again it`s simple, easy, cheap & quite effective & also could be changed out on maybe a yearly basis , kept under close scrutinty along the way (handy & simple to have a spare chain & a spare poly-urathane-nylon whatever coupling in the tool box hey?)

I really do think that one of the "already tried & proven" reverse gearboxes with LSD center would be sensible,,, ok they`re not cheap, but they`re pretty dam strong from what i`ve seen & heard,,, I`m heading that way for my hillclimb special as soon as i win the lotto (tomorow night)

the only big problem i can see is the Dept of Tpt comming to the party with the bike engine,,, if that is a go,,, then the whole project is a go,,, & yeah i reckon a front engine with rear drive would be easy too,,, just a bit too heavy for my liking with the added extras of long tail shafts & other related items needed simply by in the design.

But hey>>> If the Dpt of Tpt says yeah,,, then i say yeah

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

Honda Goldwing's have a reverse...........why not use a similar set up

I asked this question at DOT here.
If a car is passed by say SA DOT can you legally drive it on the roads in other states.
They could see no reason why you could not.
This is based on adr requirements being aust wide.
So I can not under stand why there are different state interpretations of adr rules.
If the car/eng passes engineering and pollution and has road worthy cert /rego then you should be able to drive it anywhere

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Research is the difference between speculation and investment. Anyone who copys some one else will always be second
www.minisprintgt.com

Obviously, the ADR's and rego issues are a different kettle of fish, but as for the drive train design and layout, has anyone spoken to Z cars or other such companies in the UK?

They've obviously spent a lot of time and money on R&D on bike engined minis. They should have most of the answers to everyones questions already.

I mean, whats the point of spending bulk $$$ on reinventing the wheel when other guys have been running these setups for years?

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-James.

Toyota 4EFTE Powered Minivan.
102 Kw @ The Front Wheels....Oh What a Feeling!

Dave,

That's why DOTARS will become the defining body Australia -wide, to eliminate all these inconsistencies and ambiguities. Still, that's a way off yet, as the States dont want to relinquish control.

We'll get the bugger passed!!

James - my thoughts exactly. Chain drive LSD with reverse, with a mid-mount configuration has been tried and tested many, many times.

Cheers,
Tricky

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"Not Speeding Officer..........Qualifying"

Just build the cars and bring them to SA for inspection. I know you could register a 3 legged blind donkey here.
I am currently going thru the process for engineering cars/ inspections here and some of the local rules are amazing.
Some things they want are over the top yet others are so slack it's unbelievable.
I have got approval to build a mini body out of alumin. The rules here[pre adr] state that the body panels can be replaced with a replacement metal but not a composite fiber. Figure that out.
Some of the interesting engineering points that have cropped up deals with things that you would have on a bike conversion. You can have a un-guarded tail shaft ,but a chain drive requires guards to ensure if the chain breaks it can not cause a hazard to other cars.What about a bike
Some of these rules are a bit stupid,but there are ways around them.

I know that the blokes at Z cars are building cars in england, but the construction requirements there are obviously different to here. What is needed is to make sure that the construction methods there are going to be accepted here if you copy them.
Now if you want to get serious then that bike V8 eng that Matt showed is quite legal here. We have no law here that says you cannot have two engs in a car.

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Research is the difference between speculation and investment. Anyone who copys some one else will always be second
www.minisprintgt.com

I've been reading this thread, as I like the concept of bike engined minis. In particular, I'd like to see someone (me after a lotto win?) put some sort of V-twin, like a Ducati or huge (2 litre) Harley engine in. I have a Suzuki M50 (VZ800) and would like an M109 (1800cc) bike as it pulls as hard as a GSXR1000 in a straight line. The sight of two cylinder heads just poking through cut-outs in the bonnet appeal greatly.

Anyway, I believe the 'bikes have no torque' idea is not particularly valid if you're talking about the Hayabusa. It puts out 110 foot pounds, and the 1380 built by Bill Solis in the Ultimate Mini Engine Build DVD puts out 100 ft pounds. Couple that to the Hayabusa's prodigious power output and I don't think you'll be wanting for any more torque as you're going to have to get that transferred to forward motion, and the tyres are going to be the limiting factor.

Just my thoughts, and I'd love to test the theory in real life.

Dead right Angus dog,,, you is on the money on all counts (except the harley thing tho )

fabbing up something that can get the drive of the V twin to a decent diff (that actually fits in the limited space) is still a problem tho,,, i`ve worked out a way,,, just that it`s a big bulky

I`ve looked at the yamaha MT-01 1700cc & big bags of torque I`d really like the whole bike & ride it for a while before i ripped the donk out,,, my only worry is that i`d like the bike sooo much that i wouldn`t rip the donk out, i`d probably just keep it as it is & sell all my minis

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.