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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:35 pm 
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Terrific, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:21 am 
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<mod edit - rule 1>

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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:34 am 
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Almost proof :) :) To us it seem as if the kits come in smaller lots not one big batch of 3449.

Wiper motors (Car Number...9/54780/1276) dated the 12/60

Wiper Motor (Car Number...9/66206/2874 dated the 3/61

Yes they may have been changed but unlikely. So Car Number 2874 was unlikely to have came on the same shipment as Car Number 1276 if Mini's were released in March 1961.

Others can help to confirm this by passing on there Car numbers.

Peter & Karen

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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:17 am 
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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:41 pm 
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An explanation of some of the codes is contained in this Service Bulletin from 1959. It may be the one Morris 1100 mentioned above.

This is the sort of information that Peter Davis is putting in his book.

Attachment:
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Attachment:
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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:48 pm 
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The starter motors and other parts are not likely to have been put on in any order. As CKD kits arrived the parts would have been put in stock and drawn out to put on cars completely randomly. From talking with former factory employees stock for about three months was usually held.

Also, when CKD packs came out they were usually in small batches, such as six or twelve cars to a batch. You wouldn't get six complete cars in one box, though. What your would get would be more like in one box all the body panels; in another box all the engines/gearboxes; in another all the wheels, starter motors and other components, etc. So, it might have been three or four boxes to a batch of six or twelve cars.

This is certainly how it worked for every other CKD car.

Now, how many batches would come out at one time? I have no idea, but keep in mind that when the factory was producing its own panels they were working to three-months' stock. Remember this was pre-decimal days and the way the Poms worked they were probably sent by the dozen, so maybe five to ten dozen, or six or twelve dozen, at a time might make sense.

It is all hypothetical, but if you had, say, twelve dozen packs of twelve cars at a time, that's 1728 cars at a time. But of course, they would have been bringing in Morris Minors, tractors, a few light commercial vehicles and the Minis - they would not have brought out a complete ship load of Minis in one go. Where would they store them all for a start, and it would not have been economically viable for a ship load to contain only one model of vehicle. When only looking at one type of vehicle it is easy to forget that the factory was producing a wide range of vehicles, with different levels of local content, as well as fully importing other vehicles, like MG and Riley for example.

So, given that we have "established" that 3449 M850s (assuming this is correct) came out before the floorpans and other parts were changed to the later type, they would not likely have come out all at once, but in a series of batches.

Below are three photos of typical CKD packs (would love to find similar photos of Mini CKD packs).

In the photo of the three boxes on the forklift, two are marked Morris Minor panels, while the third is unmarked on either side facing the camera.

The photo of the box being opened up shows body panels only. Notice, too, that CKD body panels didn't necessarily come in "completely" knocked down, despite the definition of the letters CKD. Some parts, such as floorpans, doors, bootlids and bonnets, came in already partly assembled.

The photo at the bottom shows MGA chassis and parts being crated up ready for CKD export. The body panels and many other parts for these three chassis would have been in other boxes.

Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:57 pm 
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Brilliant - thanks Doug.

Page 4 is the important one here

It spells out the dating by using the first digit:

7 - 1/12/1958 to 30/11/1959
8 - 1/12/1959 to 30/11/1960
9 - 1/12/1960 to 30/11/1961

No mention at all about 9/ relating to CKD.

I would call that conclusive proof.

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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:44 pm 
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Thanks guys. Very informative


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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:19 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:29 pm 
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This is the bulletin that Morris 1100 referred to earlier regarding the deletion of the English chassis number from the ID plate.

Attachment:
G 62_63 p1.jpg
Attachment:
G 62_63 p2.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:28 pm 
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Interestingly, it doesn't say that CKD production ceased at car 32000, only that the UK number was deleted from that point.

According to Peter Davis, former Product Engineering Administrative Manager at Waterloo, Australian production of panels coincided with the release of YDO4, YDO5 and YDO6.

That would put local panel production as late as Jan-Feb 1965, as the Mini De Luxe (YDO5) was released on 29 March 1965, and even later for Morris 850.

That is a lot later than I have previously believed. It makes sense in a way, that local pressings would begin with a new model, but I had always been told, and read elsewhere that it commenced with Van production, which was early 1964.

Morris 850 is still shown in the Wheels magazine price lists until at least April 1966. In October 1966 they list Mini Minor (YDO4). I don't have May through to September (anyone else able to fill the gaps?)

According to the book How To Get More From Your Car - Mini Minor, by Wheels magazine in about 1970, 60,188 Morris 850s were produced. Were all of these CKD, or did CKD really cease with car number 32000?

Unfortunately, the BMC Service Bulletin above (Gen 62) only raises more questions, because it doesn't say local pressing of panels has begun or that CKD assembly has ended.

Hmmm...

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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:47 pm 
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As far as I'm aware the Deluxe was built to meet the incoming Plan A car plan under the 1965 tariff regs which meant full Australian production.
The 850 was always a CKD with increasing local content under the previous tariff regs, it was never going to be full local content but when the Government tightened the rules for 65 the Deluxe was the answer.
So my opinion is that there was over 60,000 CKD Morris 850s, the later ones had a lot more local content than the earlier ones but never enough to claim full local production under the Government regs of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:51 pm 
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watto wrote:
It makes sense in a way, that local pressings would begin with a new model, but I had always been told, and read elsewhere that it commenced with Van production, which was early 1964.

The Morris 850 and Van Australian Parts List (HYL2980) shows UK parts numbers for all the sedan body panels (e.g. ALA, 14A and 24A part number prefixes) and no Australian body panels, whilst the van has an Australian Body Side Panel Assembly (HYA2344/5) and Cant Rail (HYA2342/3). Also, the window option in the van side panel is an Australian part. So the theory that the van received Australian panels before the sedan seems to hold water. The BMC Australia engineering drawings for the various sedan and van panels will show the date the part was released into production so will assist in the discussion, but checking those will have to wait for a few weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: CKD Mini
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:52 pm 
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Here the identification page from the Mini Parts book HYL3262, it mentions the numbering change at 32000...

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