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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:01 pm 
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Bimmer Twinky
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:36 pm
Posts: 8606
Location: Brisbane
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GepuJfZOis8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDp8yjdFAD4&feature=related

& one of my favourites,,, a piston actually hits & smashes this guys hand OUCH!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2GLrZSTsI8&feature=related

edit--> Oh & this one too :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRYwrHQyJAM&feature=related

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:20 pm 
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848cc
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Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 202
Location: Adelaide
blown up just one for me,

was doing a motorkhana at monarto in 06, i had no center oil pick up at the time and a constant right hand corner at 4k led to loss of oil on the pick up and the engine seized.

took the plugs out pushed it back and forwards till it freed the bearings and got it running again. But i had a nasty big end rattle on 3 and 4. completely smeared the bearing over the oil holes.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:18 pm 
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1098cc
1098cc

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: wasleys S.A.
Interesting. some of the piston/brgs could be explained. broken crank/rods????????

Consider this
1 the clutch bake plate and pressure plate are bolted together and attached to the flywheel with 3 metal strips.
2 the dia. of the backplate is 225mm
3 the weight of the back plate and pressure plate is 7kgs
4 engine running at 6000 rpm ie 100 revs /sec

the circumference of the back plate is travelling at 71 meters/sec

when the clutch is used the back plate moves and as there is NO positive location to crank or flywheel andmoves off center and the whole crank/flywheel goes out of balance.

This out of balance force can be calculated by using a formula called centripetal force and the vibration transmitted thru all the reciprocating parts[crank/rods/pistons and brgs] is calculated with torsional vibration formula. all IC engs have torsional vibration and critical noduals, the point at which maximum stress occurs.

I was shown a practical demo of this years ago. One of the engineers where I was working had a min eng set up on test bench. He cut a hole in clutch housing to see bolts in pressure plate. Maked around this area with chalk. Ran eng to 5000 rpm and using a strobe light we watched the bolt. Then activated the clutch, you could see the bolt moving around every time the clutch was engaged and dis-engaged. It quite often did not return to original position. This meant that this whole 7kg mass was going out of balance.

This out of balance force is like bending a piece of metal, the amount of deflection and the no. of times determins when it will break.

What is the point of balancing a crank/rods/flywheel whe you have this out of balance force occuring unless the reciprocating mass can be positively located and included in the balancing.

Man these engines are good for the abuse we give them

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 1:44 am 
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1275cc
1275cc
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 5174
Location: Greensborough, Victoria
Only blown up 1 engine........2007 on Philip Island (chasing and catching a purpose built race mini) coming up to the hayshed ...no warning, no loss of oil pressure, no knocking, etc .......just BANG :!: :!: no.2 pulled the thread out of one of the rod bolt nuts and the other rod bolt let go after a bit of 7.500 - 8,000 rpm hammering, piston stuck at the top of the bore crank came arond and made short work of the bigend of the rod and damaged the wall of the lock, bent the cam and crank (block is able to be saved :D ).

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:58 am 
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religious status
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:19 pm
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Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW
david rosenthal wrote:
Interesting. some of the piston/brgs could be explained. broken crank/rods????????

Consider this
1 the clutch bake plate and pressure plate are bolted together and attached to the flywheel with 3 metal strips.
2 the dia. of the backplate is 225mm
3 the weight of the back plate and pressure plate is 7kgs
4 engine running at 6000 rpm ie 100 revs /sec

the circumference of the back plate is travelling at 71 meters/sec

when the clutch is used the back plate moves and as there is NO positive location to crank or flywheel andmoves off center and the whole crank/flywheel goes out of balance.

This out of balance force can be calculated by using a formula called centripetal force and the vibration transmitted thru all the reciprocating parts[crank/rods/pistons and brgs] is calculated with torsional vibration formula. all IC engs have torsional vibration and critical noduals, the point at which maximum stress occurs.

I was shown a practical demo of this years ago. One of the engineers where I was working had a min eng set up on test bench. He cut a hole in clutch housing to see bolts in pressure plate. Maked around this area with chalk. Ran eng to 5000 rpm and using a strobe light we watched the bolt. Then activated the clutch, you could see the bolt moving around every time the clutch was engaged and dis-engaged. It quite often did not return to original position. This meant that this whole 7kg mass was going out of balance.

This out of balance force is like bending a piece of metal, the amount of deflection and the no. of times determins when it will break.

What is the point of balancing a crank/rods/flywheel whe you have this out of balance force occuring unless the reciprocating mass can be positively located and included in the balancing.

Man these engines are good for the abuse we give them

Good analysis there David, I'm wondering if the later Verto clutch setup is any better?
These have the pressure plate/flywheel setup reversed, where the pressure plate is bolted to the crank, and the `flywheel' floats... it is all still hung a long way out from the rear main bearing. I bet that doesn't help crank durability either!

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:02 am 
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1275cc
1275cc

Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:42 pm
Posts: 2345
Location: Athelstone- Adelaide
An interesting read, David. And I agree they hold up very well considering the hammering they recieve.

I have spun a big end in a very tired 1098 in my van when I was about 16yo on a mini cruise. :roll: Stupid kids. :lol:

Matt

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:30 am 
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1360cc
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Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:41 pm
Posts: 12311
Location: Rockingham - Collie WA
Never actually blown up a mini engine, although I have put the clutch out through the housing :shock:

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