Ha ha. However not all blocks had the stamp.

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ex-NSW Police 1970 MK II Cooper S
VMCI #43

As indicated by the title of this post ‘Australia Map Stamp …. What does it Mean?’my objective was to understand its usage not its scarcity.
However how prolific or not something is can give key clues. Such as the theory of ‘storage’ ‘special purpose (ie Police or race unit)’ even point of ‘‘manufacture’ and that’s to just name a couple of theories that have been posted in this and other threads on this forum.
I wish gtogreen 1969 had initially disclosed your thoughts on these items being ‘spares’ or having been put aside it would certainly have given me more faith in the sharing of information on this forum. Allowing other members to know proposed theories when it is known that much uncertainty surrounds a topic may allow for valuable information that assists in theory development.

Amending the registry to include Australian Map appearances would help to draw some support towards certain theories or exclude others.
For example if the Australian Map stamp can be seen to appear on cars where ID and compliance plates numbers match with engine block stampings with abundance, as gtogreen suggests they are not that unique, then storage can be ruled out as not the reason. That is just one example. If the data starts to show little to know correlation between vehicles ID plates and stamping numbers then gotogreens theory of storage units become a stronger argument. Maybe.
It may also give us interesting insight into the workings at BMC if the storage theory grows in strength, such as how they used these units, how many might they have kept, were they ever used in production. Just because one ID plate correlates in my opinion should not rule out a storage designation. Or a remanufacture theory proposed by winabbey. It is well documented that BMC hot run tested their engines. Surely failures occurred. What happened to these engines? Is there any evidence of remanufacture in records, anecdotal accounts of employees ect?
That goes for storage of power units. We must remember in the storage theory that BMC used Mk2 engine stamped blocks in Mk1 vehicles manufactured at the end of their run MAR 1969 vehicle 5455 through 5486. Using up parrts instead of storage is a common behaviour across BMC makes and across the Mini itself. Take for example MG’s and the mini Clubman GT.
If that theory of remanufacture grows in weight data collection on the number of engines with that marking may give insight into BMC workmanship failure rate. How many engines required Aussies to fix the Poms mistakes. How good would that be to know. Mathematically possible to determine. Obviously there would be an error factor but maybe we might get a glimpse.
Having a column in the register allows forum members to know that this information is important information in the history of BMC and the mini, to solve questions regarding its use. I hope further consideration is given to the idea.
If it wasn’t important all you great minds wouldn’t be participating in this thread.

Doug has asked me to make a comment on this issue. I am unable to find any explanation, but I can say that the engine numbers pictured are not those assigned for short engines such as would be supplied by Parts and Accessories.

If a part (either CBU or CKD) was locally reworked, then it was assigned a new part number with a Y as the second character. While there are plenty of instances of “crankcase” with a Y part number in general, only a sprinkling are mini related: AYG2205, AYG2206 (2/YDO4/YDO5), AYG2253 (YDO23). These parts are not drawn so I can’t tell what the modifications are. However, the 9F engine pictured above is much earlier than these so it would appear that the map does not indicate these AYG parts.

The engine numbers pictured above show both CKD and CBU power plants. The YDO30 1204 engine is certainly interesting.
Since our friend and colleague Peter Davis became deceased just before Christmas, we are unable to ask him, but in all the years Peter and I spent writing about vehicle identification, he never once mentioned a map of Australia after the engine number as signifying anything. Other appendices to engine numbers are well documented.

The Mowog and map markings Doug refers to are to be stamped in an un-machined surface for castings which is not the case here. For all we know, it could be an over-patriotic dealer that wanted to put his own stamp on things.
Regards
Tony

There is a comments column in the registers where the Aussie Logo stamps can be annotated. I dont feel there is a need to create an entire column for only a handful of examples.

The registers engine number column annotate engines stamped with S for sleeved and B for Borg warner gears and these are part of the cars engine number listed on the ID plate.

There are quite a few engines stamped with (C,D,H,I,J,L,T, 7 and UK) on the end after the rivet hole which don't correspond to the ID plate engine numbers and these have been left off the register.

This is a good one from late 1964. It has the S for factory sleeved, Aussie logo and U.K stamping

After a little bit of seaching I can report that the map of Australia after the engine number also appears on some Morris 1500 (OHC) blocks - the significance is that YDO9 (1500 OHC) E series engines were cast and machined in Australia, while all A series blocks for Mini were cast and machined in UK - and so the Australia map was stamped by someone in Australia, not in UK.

Eightfifty (Tony) could you please explain what acronyms CKD & CBU mean, please?

Thanks eightfifty, thats interesting that it appears on yet another BMC make the Morris 1500. But again only on some.

So we have definitive evidence that the Australia Map appears on these BMC makes
- Mini Copper S Mk1
- Mini K
- Morris Mini 1100
- Morris Mini Clubman
- Moke (Special Export)
- Morris 1500
- Morris Van (was that photo above of an engine from a Morris 850 Van or Morris Mini Van?)

Do we know of any other BMC makes?
The consistent part on all of these BMC makes is that the Australia Map appears only on a few examples. Not all. Even where an Engine like the YD09 were cast and machined in Australia. To clarify all YD09 engines were cast and machined in Australia, no UK imports? If that is so then it starts to rule out any theory on manufacture or reworking.

Thanks gtogreen1969 for the information that BMC used a variety of stamping derivatives. We know some of there meanings
These denoted
S - Sleeved
B - Borg Warner Gears
C - ?
D - ?
H - ?
I - ?
J - ?
L - ?
T - ?
7 - ?
UK - ?
Australia Map - ?

Can anyone expand on what the above stamps denoted? Or know of other letters/marks that appear stamped on blocks?

gtogreen1969 thats a great 8YUH block, with three stampings a 'S' 'UK' and 'Australia Map'. It appears from the number of photos of differing blocks that you are quiet the collector in this area, with a particular interest.

However, gtogreen1969 it appears your shifting like the sand. Initially the Australia Map you stated was 'I don't think its that unique' then 'I don't feel there is a need to create an entire column for only a handful of examples'. Maybe your right that there is not a need for another column. But surely this information is important to be included in the register, and not just the the Australia Map stampings but all block stampings carried out by BMC. If a column placed after the engine number is included, people will more readily know that this information is being collected, and is note worthy.
This information is valuable to painting a picture of BMC workings and the history of these vehicles.
What have we got to lose by its inclusion? There is only insight. I'll say no more on that topic. I have expressed my view.

I can only include 1 of the engines I know of with the aussie map to a particular car on the registers - so I will add a note to that cars comments column.

CKD completely knocked down ie a kit
CBU completely built up

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

hi rick94797

Just for clarification on eightfifty's comment re Mowog map.

My reading /interpretation is that the winabbey documents ( thanks Doug) and Tony's comments are regarding a different map - not the one on the engine ID stamping. .....

If that is the case then your definitive evidence statement about car types may be a stretch.?? (maybe Tony, Rick or Doug to politely tell me i am way off the mark or not)

As for changing the register entries...... I am with gtogreen on answering NO to a new column - but also adding a big BEWARE sign if some entries like (MAP on ID plate) are added to the comments section.

The addition of data - or in this case incomplete data does not convey Truth - and in fact is probably less accurate than just the plain statement of interest - that some blocks were found to have a map stamp on them.

PS. I have no allegiance/ownership of current registers AND hold absolutely no sway on the registers' format /upkeep etc - better people than I already do a great job of that.

Yes FNQ I believe you are likely right that the Winabbey document refers to a different stamp and I think that is what eightfifty was alluding to above.

As to the expression ’definitive evidence’ I was referring to gtogreen great post of all the different engine block stampings with the Australia Map. That is definitive. That’s great evidence of its use across a variety of BMC makes. I’m certainly the wiser for it. Hopefully others are too.
It also appears that I missed 63lcn post above who identified that he has a 1200 engine with a map. I take that he was referring to the prefix of a Clubman GT engine. If my inference is correct that’s another make definitively known to have the Aussie Map stamped on some engines. My GT does not.

So a question to 63lcn I hope your still with us
Does the vehicles engine block numbers correspond to the compliance plate numbers of the vehicle?

A question to gtogreen1969 is you state that you ‘… can only include 1 of the engines I know of with the Aussie Map on the registers…’ Does that engine number match to the compliance/ID plate? Are you willing to share what BMC Model it is?

We know matching engine numbers to ID plate occurs on my Dads MK1 Cooper S which has the Aussie Map.

My Mk2 Cooper S engine block has a suffix of "H". maybe one day it's meaning will come to light.

Its the Mini K engine.

Engines numbers were not stamped into ADR compliance plates.

Here are some more if you want to chase down the owners.




Some from the moke forum
1001 xxxxx https://www.mokeforum.com.au/index.php? ... #msg125752
9YBUH xxxx https://www.mokeforum.com.au/index.php? ... 8#msg77558
1204 xxxx https://www.mokeforum.com.au/index.php? ... 9#msg77439

Thanks gtogreen1969 for those links.

gtogreen1969 the quote you inserted from SuperCooper regarding a 1205 block (police GT) did that appear in another discussion on this forum on the topic? If so do you mind sharing the link?

In regards SuperCooper's engine block thats a really interesting example and shows its use beyond personal vehicles.

Being a Police Order from factory carrying that Australia Map stamp, can we rule out any theory of over patriotic dealers or any naughty stamping at the dealer level as that car would of been delivered directly to Police. Would that be Correct that Police vehicles were delivered directly to Police and did not pass through a dealer? Does anyone know anything about the deliver process for Police vehicles?
Winabbey with your extensive work on Police minis and documentation, are you able to help and explain how Police vehicles were delivered from factory or direct me to any information?

Just search the word 1205 and author supercooper

like this - search.php?keywords=1205&terms=all&author=supercooper&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

He mentions it a few times. It was fitted to his MK2 S when purchased in 1993 so there is no GT to link it to.

Rick - the map stamp is unrelated to Police vehicles.

Cars were sent to a selling BMC dealer for preparation, including fitting accessories, and then delivered to the NSW Govt Motor Garage in Glebe for installation of Police equipment, then on to the assigned Police area. The two main dealers were P & R Williams and Larke Hoskins.

_________________
ex-NSW Police 1970 MK II Cooper S
VMCI #43