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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:05 pm 
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848cc
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One has to wonder if massive brakes really make a difference... I have a couple of sets of discs im doing and im going to get the plates cut, so to standardise im going to do all the discs to fit 10", ie 7.9"....

Facts:

A set of S discs in good order, with decent pads are great... Only reason all these brake conversions are being done as we all probably know is because S discs are rare and expensive, not because they are crap....

Arguments:

Hondas have more pad than the S discs (and i reckon the S discs have more pad than the metro/LS discs incidentally) and are a little bigger at 7.9 and a little thicker, which is nice. They should be simular to S discs, if not better, and they should run a bit cooler. However the 7.9 inch conversion is a lot more work than the 9 inch conversion

People i know with the 9 inch discs arent complaining, they reckon they have great brakes, one of our "carclub" members even has a booster on the 9 inch discs, cos he had one on his drums prior to the conversion (probly put there to "fix" tired/worn drums)

But one has to wonder if 9 inch civic's and moreso the ventilated accord brakes and other massive brake conversions are a bit of an overkill, infact it could even bee a little dangerous, brakes could run cooler than optimum running temperature for the pads, making them less effective, but more concerning is i reckon these brakes could work TOO well.... Ill explain for any who arent following...

Conclusion:

Good braking isn't neccecarily the ability to lock up easily, this isn't the fastest way to stop (not to mention being hard on tyres!), the fastest way to stop is to depress your foot as much as you can WITHOUT locking up the brakes and sliding, if you lock up you should back of and re apply the brakes technically for the best braking....

Another misconception about boosters, they dont make braking better, they make braking easier for the driver, just another thing to go wrong, heh... More feel without anyway..

The S discs on my car are pretty tired and thin and they stop on a dime, and i can lock the wheels up relatively easily without a booster. When one gets into trouble on the road you generally will depress your brakes very hard, unless your as cool as Bond, if from nothing else but adrenalin, if your brakes are too good they will grab hard and youll be off and sliding

Maybe the increase is size and power will be offset by the decrease in heat.. who knows

I don't want to take anything away from the big brake conversions, the ventilated discs on this page look awesome! (a lot better than the pictured cars brake hoses... :P ) and are great pieces of engineering, but those big discs willl lock the front of a mini up very easily if rapidly depressed and unless you know how to control your brakes you might get into some trouble.... trouble you might not have got into even with a half decent set of drums, that would be ironic!

Spose if you do have big brakes or are set on them, make sure you practise some emergency stops to get your technique down, certainly wouldn't bother with a booster, i'd even unfit one that was there if it was my car as i think feel would be extra important with these big brakes

Just thoughts, speculations and hypothesese.........

G


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:18 pm 
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If I remember right, animal got the Accord ones pictured, for nix... :wink: I agree yes, probably overkill on a Mini, but if they're free..

On the other hand, bear in mind that 13" wheels with 7.5" S discs are really underbraked- there's a lot of daylight outside those discs! Which is why 8.4s are better on big wheels. What matters (and was covered by KC on the MM/MS site) is the radius the pads work at, vs the wheel size.

Josh's 9" Civic brakes in 12" wheels are great, my only concern is that he's using a booster. Too easy to lock everything in a panic stop, IMO. I'd sell the VH44 to someone that needs it.. :wink:

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:32 pm 
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848cc
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Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 6:39 pm
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Location: Gold Coast
I just had a look at that 'ebay shop'. Am I right in saying that Rotor is synonymous with Disc in the "disc brake" setup? Also that ebay shop says the 'rotors' are for a commodore? Are they the same stud pattern/thickness ETC that we're after?

The Good Doctor seems to have ruled out the combination of 10" wheels and No Flares. You mentioned a few different types of 10's, but not the Performance Superlite 10". I'm pretty confident you'll say "no go there either mate" but I wanna be certain.

My choice is brand spankin' new Performance Superlite 12" x 5"s. Which offset do I want while still remaining legal? Will any offset do? Which is preferable visually?

dewey

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:39 pm 
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Dewey,
I think these wheels have only one offset. If you fit without spacers they will just be legal, if you use 25mm spacers you will need Inno flares or S ones.

Your choice- personally, I'd throw some flares on it and use the spacers. 8)

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:41 pm 
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998cc
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hey dewey i think you'll find that those commodore discs are completely different to the honda discs, however the people selling the commodore disc say to contact them and they will quote for any other disc


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:05 pm 
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848cc
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Location: Gold Coast
drmini in aust wrote:
Dewey,
I think these wheels have only one offset. If you fit without spacers they will just be legal, if you use 25mm spacers you will need Inno flares or S ones.

Your choice- personally, I'd throw some flares on it and use the spacers. 8)


You mean with the 12" wheels right?

I reckon if I went for it, I'd try without flares first. Then fit flares if absolutely necessary.

<edit> Just looked at the performance site and they don't have 10" wheels listed. So u must mean 10's. There is so many little details to sort out.... this is hard work!

dewey

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 9:15 pm 
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Dewey,
Yeah I'm talking 12". No way you will fit Civic discss inside any 10" wheel without using flares.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Disappearing pedal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:45 am 
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848cc
848cc

Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:33 am
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Location: Launceston, Tas
Heya,
My friend has just done the conversion to honda discs and i'm in the process of it

He's finding that after travellling sideways, he's losing all the fluid behind his brake pedal (Can take 6 or 7 pumps to get brakes again)

It seems to be a combination of sharp turns and handbrakes. normal driving conditions are just fine.

The set up is . . . 200mm discs and calipers from '83 honda civic (spaced 6mm behind disc and 19mm infront). No booster.

Has anyone had this problem ofr have any theories?

Cheers


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:07 pm 
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998cc
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Location: NSW Australia
Is the fluid level in the master cylinder getting lower? You might have a leak somewhere that only happens on extreme conditions (ie. lots of braking pressure)


ps. I'm not the most knowledgable, so this may be completly off track :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:08 pm 
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848cc
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Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:33 am
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Location: Launceston, Tas
I think we've found the cause. On full lock, and under load, the back of the caliper is just hitting on the tie rod. This pushes the floating part of the caliper outwards, the piston back inside the caliper, and all the fluid back up to the master cylinder.

I guess we'll have to push the caliper further outboard by spacing behind the outboard brake pad. Unless someone has a better idea. (please)

Has anybody come across this problem before?

The brake hoses are also bent right up on full lock. Has anybody noticed deterioration or pinhing on the hoses? or done anything about it?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:52 pm 
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What rack are you using?
On my Clubbie, (10" wheels) the Honda calipers clear the tie rods OK. I'm using Oz Clubbie rack and arms.You may have a UK (MK2) on rack, these gave more lock..

BTW, if you fit these Pommy racks (sold by Karcraft and others) you really need MK2 UK steering arms as they have a different angle to suit the rack...

The Mini hoses are a bit long, I just twist them a little so they don't rub the tie rods.

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:22 am 
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1275cc
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Location: Melbourne, VIC.
Mini front hoses for disk brakes are shorter, should I buy these instead?

I need to buy new ones anyway.

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Brett Nicholson
Greendale (near Ballan) VIC.
1971 Morris Mini Moke
1966 Austin Mini
1965 Morris Mini Traveller
1973 LR Series 3 88
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 Post subject: Re: Disappearing pedal
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:29 pm 
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1275cc
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Location: sthn highlands nsw
jimbo wrote:
Heya,
My friend has just done the conversion to honda discs and i'm in the process of it

He's finding that after travellling sideways, he's losing all the fluid behind his brake pedal (Can take 6 or 7 pumps to get brakes again)

It seems to be a combination of sharp turns and handbrakes. normal driving conditions are just fine.

The set up is . . . 200mm discs and calipers from '83 honda civic (spaced 6mm behind disc and 19mm infront). No booster.

Has anyone had this problem ofr have any theories?

Cheers

does he have 2 copper washers on each brake hose ? kev suggests that 2 copper washers are fitted between the brake hoses and the body of the caliper ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:10 pm 
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Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW
Bnicho,
yes the disc hoses are a tad shorter. IF you can get them...
But to really fix the problem I'd use Honda hoses (which have a banjo end) and make/buy an adaptor to the Mini pipe.

Ausminis4u-
a dozen copper washers won't fix this problem.... :lol:

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2004 5:32 am 
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1275cc
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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 12:16 am
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Location: Adelaide SA Ausmini Sales Department
I cant believe this is the first time i've read this topic....

My conclusion on: Honda disc setup Vs. the moke 8.4 setup on my SC850....

Honda's looks good (mine kinda do too)
Honda's lock the wheels (so do mine)
Honda's fit behind Mini alloys after alot of machining (mine need no machining)
Break a honda part and you'll need to machine up another.. (mine need no machining)

As much as i like the idea of Honda "wank-factor", I'll stick with the moke discs thanks... cos if the wheels lock up, it wont stop any quicker.

Wanna stop quicker??? Try upgrading your tyres.

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[NATHAN] -- Sold everything mini related and am back in big beautiful BMWs
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