so what if it is!!!! jokes. im only cranky cos i gotta go to work.

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I have a problem.. apparently

These guys claim to have the facts - but it appears to awefully one sided version of the facts so treat it with some caution

http://www.friendsofethanol.com/facts.html

The benefit in fuel cost is only 3-4c per litre, this issue was raised a couple of years ago but then all the local car manufacturers opposed ethanol blended fuels but now all of a sudden they are giving it approval.(Industrial relations bribe????)
Ethanol does not do anything good for a car or the environment ( think of all the extra cane fields burning) it is strictly a political descision to fatten the pockets of little Johnnys mates in the sugarcane industry.
Now this topic has got me angry

1. They don't burn cane fields any more Gilly, they actually make money out of selling the stuff they used to burn as "sugar cane mulch" to all those city gardeners, so don't worry about that as far as environmental impact goes.

2. Of more concern is that the sugar cane industry lobby was a large donor to the liberal party at the last federal election. The How-hard is it government was unable to win concessions in the "free" trade agreement with the USA for them to remove tarrifs on aussie sugar imports, so now they have to pay back by some other means.

3. think of the abuse of petrol now - you can sniff it AND drink it

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the world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page
66 Mini Minor sponsored by http://www.lifeonthehedge.com.au/ The Dog Harness Specialists
It was a pleasure ausmini. I'll miss all you misfits and reprobates

I was getting that feeling when that site claimed that your fuel ecconomy could be worse but you would hardly notice the difference if it was.

Like i said - treat the information it contaiins with caution. Sometimes it is valuable to gather the propeganda

Bottom line is that my new car warranties will be null and void if I use this in my Subaru and Yamaha.

I don't care who says what, it's not kosher till Subaru and Yamaha says it is.

P.S. How long before the price difference gets absorbed into a price rise? 14 cents won't go very far in a few months time.

P.S.S. Will the price of Mars Bars be linked to the price of light crude cos of the sugar content?

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

It is environmentally friendly. All the CO2 in a plant is absorbed from the air, converted via photosynthesis into plant matter and stored. when you burn the plant you return the CO2 to the air. The point is that you are only returning into the air what came out of the air. The net result is zero new CO2 emissions.

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Noli Illegitimi Carborundum

If only it was that simple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_fu ... criticisms

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One should never skimp on the zip ties.

there is one servo i always go to and it has 5% ethnol in its fuel and they claim it to be 94 RON. i've been using it for about 2 months and ive been getting better fuel economy too. its about 4 cents cheaper than standard stuff.
Its in my falcon, not a mini, i dont own one any more.

JIM

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(60 hp @ 5700 RPM) in my old mini.

i think the biggest gain is the fact its totally renewable...100%...as long as it rains...we'll be able to make it...i would say that every country on earth can make alcohol...almost any starch-rich plant matter will produce alcohol when it ferments...so it would no longer put the wealth and power into the hands of the oil rich nations...meaning that we would no longer be depending on the US's control of the middle east etc...as long as it works more or less the same as petrol...i'd be all for it...

two thumbs up for ethanol!

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Bling me up Scotty!
"wait till it grows into a plant...then bunny rabbit THE PLANT!"

1966 Morris Mini DeLuxe FOR SALE

That'll leave you eight other fingers free to plug the leaks in your fuel lines once the ethanol eats holes in them.

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One should never skimp on the zip ties.

-ethanol costs more than petrol to produce so the federal govt has set up subsidies and fuel excise consessions to encourage the production of ethanol(from crops) to be added to petrol (presumably to reduce oil emissions... but lets not forget that the PM has been a close personal friend of Mr Goeff cox, the head of the "sugar can to fuel" comittee/organisation).

-many car manufacturers accept that up to 10% of ethanol in petrol (known as E10) has no detrimental effects on vehicles but they have strongly opposed high concentrations because of the lack of testing under these circumstances.

-significant quantities of ethanol-petrol (E10) is available widely throughout australia but because of some tight ass petrol station workers who dillute the petrol with higher levels of ethanol to gain higher govt subsidies, car manufacturers air on the side of caution and disapprove of this higher concentration of fuel.

-there are no RELIABLE studies that show that ethanol made in australia from wheat or molasses produce less greenhouse gas emmissions compared to the petrol in which it would be replacing

-to produce enough ethanol to replace the petrol at ur pumps, HUGE amounts of land would have to be devoted purely to growing crops of high starch grains such as maize, so that they can be used in the fermentation process

-in newer cars a mix of 10-20% ethanol can be used without needing engine modifications (doesnt mean the engine life will be the same though)

-the south american country you were thinking about would have been Brazil im fairly sure. in the 70's and 80's they used to use 25%ethanol in there petrol before the brazilian govt realise that it wasnt economically viable to continue to grow thousands of hectares of maize and sugar (the climate wasnt too good for these crops either) and they stopped in the early 90's. i read somewhere that they are actually going to/have started it again, just with better planning this time

-ethanol burns at a much lower temp than petrol too, the flashpoint of octane is around the 200C mark whereas ethanol is around 160.... meaning its enthalpy would be less, hence less calorific value surely... i dont see why that would give better fuel economy?

thats about all i cant remember from chemistry... if this doesnt answer you question, u learned something today

Johnny probably has shares in an ethanol company.
Anyway I hope the price of petrol goes higher, as I make gas mixers for a living. I just love it at the moment, job to keep up with all the conversions going on. That's the reason for the wanted notice for another lathe.
Funny though no one wants mixers to suit minis (not much room for a gas tank in the boot)

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Mini K, 1310, Jet Red/Crystal White Roof, Rover Interior

75 Clubman

ethanol probably does release as much CO2 as petrol when burned, it matters not, it could produce more. The point is that the CO2 produced came out of the air to start with so the net effect is nil.
All your other points sound entirely valid, ethanol is not the answer as nice as it would be!
And I'm not planning to run it in any vehicle I own!

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Noli Illegitimi Carborundum

another interesting Q about ethanol mixes...
because ethanol combusts at a much higher temperature, what do you think this would do to your cold engine during start-up?