So:

7 years (84 Months) to sell 7500 S's = 90 per month

18 months to sell 1000 GT's = 56 per month.

There's no guarantee the GT would have sustained 56 sales a month for 7 years. We'll never know. To compare apples with apples you would need to know how many S's sold in the first 18 months.

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But he's thriving and striving and hugging the turns.

i reckon a "classic" has more to do with what it meant to people in its own era and what images it creates (or what it represents) to people today. A classic car is one that is relevant to future generations.

So any car that is a dilution (for marketing purposes usualy) of an original timeless concept is inevitably less valued in the long run than the undiluted original. I guess by the 70s the mini was less of the enormous cultural icon it was in the 60s and was getting closer to becoming just another "set of wheels" - so to that generation and today the original 60's cars were more of a "classic" (and the price difference b/w the Coop S and the GT reflects that).

Similarly the ultimate classic car benchmark - the E type Jag was arguably improved towards the end of its life but to most people the original early 6cylinder models are the true classics as they best allign with what the E type was perceived as - a small, light 60's playboy's sportscar (unless youre an American for whom the later longer, V12 engined, heavier, chrome laden, air conditioned cars are the ultimate as to them the E type was always a boulevard cruiser and not a sports car). On the other hand the Lambo Countach models which towards the end of its life got heavier and covered in body kit and spoilers and wings (all of them purely for show) are more "classic" than the earlier more subdued cars as the Countach was always about pure show and excess. I'm not comparing Lambourghini and Jaguar with the mini but the concept of a "classic" is the same.

Rarity contributes to desirability and ‘collectabilty’ To be labelled a classic a car must be innovative (in its day), visually timeless as well as having experienced that extra special defining moment in its time whether it be in motorsport, entertainment, status etc. The Cooper S has it all. Although being a great collectable car I don’t see the GT the same way.

One thing that really helped sales figures for the S was the fact it was used by most police forces in Australia and as such and the rules used for purchase and sale of these units bumped the number of sales by quite an abnormal amount, cars rarely lasting in the servie for more than 3 months and probably accounting for an extra 500-1000 cars per year so the number of sales per year to the public from dealers is probably very similar

but that is not what makes a classic car, sales figures

Jon

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Roundies and Clubbies(except vans) are both ugly that is why I have Midas and a van
1293 Mini Midas Bronze,1275 Clubman van

I was analysing the number you put up.

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But he's thriving and striving and hugging the turns.

The information I have seen says that in the same configuration the roundie has higher top speed than the clubbie. All the justification I have seen regarding higher top speeds for GTs is based on different classes than the S top speeds. Does anybody have any definitive information that could be referenced to solve that once and for all.

Given the basic aerodynamics are basically identical, frontal area and tail there would be very little in it accept for a tiny advantage in penetration and I would give that to the roundie. Does anybody have a measured Cd for both cars?

[Edit - Found these on the web]
Cd Mini - roundnose = 0.51
Cd Clubman - slabnose= 0.53

Ok time for my input.

The roundnose, not just the Cooper S represents the 60s. No other car describes or fits the 60s better, E-types and MGBs are great but don't sum up the 60s quite so well.

As for the 70s... The Clubby does fit the 70s and it's a beautiful car of that time. Unfortunately they updated the look so it looked cool, I've never really read anywhere that the roundy was 'cool' looking in it's time, it's so understlyed that today it looks as good as it did back then. Both cars represent the time of their manudfacture and the word mini is classic, now Rovers are not classic - they are retro.

One last thing, the Kombi is a classic but are the 70s models as classic as the early split window models with safari pop-outs? Not at all, but doesn't mean it's not as good car.

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1964 Morris 850, 1330 Supercharged - 81.8hp atws.
1975 Leyland Mini S 1100S powered - Nice and reliable.
1977 Leyland Mini LS - Project LS-T

Bloke can you post the link to the figures it would be good to have a copy of the tests

If you check the road tests of the times you will see that the Cooper S usaully tested at between 94 and 97 mph all over the world when tested and the tests of the Aussie GT ( as we were the only country to get them in this spec) in klm not mph was 155-160 klm and that is with the old 5th wheel hnging of the back

Jon

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Roundies and Clubbies(except vans) are both ugly that is why I have Midas and a van
1293 Mini Midas Bronze,1275 Clubman van

My imput

Yes the later clubmans did lap Bathurst faster than the early cars - that is a fact - but its almost entirely due to tyre development. Some prcentage may be contributable to race car preparation and some changes to the rules that allowed some modifications. However, most of the lower lap times is tyres.

What are you on about? The mini was the ultimate vehiclular fashion accessory of the sixties. Bought by supermodels and superstars...

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That's right. The roundnose Mini was the car to be seen in especially the coachwork specials from Radford. A lot of the big stars of the time had one.

Put simply, the Cooper S was the Mini in its prime!

Mike you forget that there were 2 Cooper Ss in the same race, the Legget car and I cant remember the other one off the top of my head so same tyres same spec, well they are supposed to be

Jon

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Roundies and Clubbies(except vans) are both ugly that is why I have Midas and a van
1293 Mini Midas Bronze,1275 Clubman van

But we are arguing last seasons car (or a couple of previous seasons) against a brand new car , bit hard to be definite really . What rule changes had happened between the two times as well ?

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Ian

The last time they ran was under Group C rules and they were all 71 model cars

Jon

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Roundies and Clubbies(except vans) are both ugly that is why I have Midas and a van
1293 Mini Midas Bronze,1275 Clubman van

Why can't everybody be happy with their own mini, being a roundie or a clubbie, and pick on toyotas instead.

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busier than a 0ne legged man in a butt kicking competion