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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 9:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:27 am
Posts: 93
Location: Orange NSW
Hey Steve,
How's Cairns these days? I lived up in Innisfail for a while after I finished my apprenticeship - worked at Nothern Iron & Brass Foundry. That was years ago - I've always wanted to go back. Maybe one day :cry:
Dave

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:44 pm
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Location: Far North Queensland
Dave, Cairns is good, home town you know how it is. I know the foundry in Innisfail. The ranges we have here - Kuranda, Gillies & Palmerston, all great mini roads all within an hour of Cairns. cheers, Steve


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:27 am
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Location: Orange NSW
Oohhh maaannnn!
Don't do that to me! Lived on the road out to Babinda boulders for a while too. The gf (at the time) worked at the prawn factory. I wouldn't mind murder cycling 'round them ranges either. Dave

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 Post subject: Happy to Wait
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 11:23 am
Posts: 581
Location: Eastern Melbourne
Steve I appreciate the support and I can wait.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:54 pm 
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no worries Besser, I'll get back to you. Steve


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:29 pm
Posts: 142
Location: QLD
K-Mac makes front and rear sway bars for both wet and dry suspension old school minis. From memory they are around $195 each. Just email them, tell them what one you want and what sort of suspension you have and they will give you a price.

http://www.k-mac.com.au/

They are meant to be pretty good.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2004 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:27 pm
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Location: Perth, WA
few questions

what do i need to have adjustable camber front/rear?
what do i need to have adjustable toe on rear?

does a rear sway bar reduce road holding of rear hence less understeer because it oversteers before this occurs or does in increase road holding of front to reduce understeer

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:43 am 
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1098cc
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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:19 pm
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Location: Helensburgh NSW
miniVan wrote:
few questions

what do i need to have adjustable camber front/rear?
what do i need to have adjustable toe on rear?

does a rear sway bar reduce road holding of rear hence less understeer because it oversteers before this occurs or does in increase road holding of front to reduce understeer


No one else seems to want to answer this so I might have a go. Sway, or to get pedantic anti-roll bars primary task is to stop unwanted weight transfer caused by body roll. If the front wheels see less weight in a corner then they "push" or understeer less. Anti-roll bars also have other side effects but I would have to get the book of words out as I forget what they are.

Negative camber adjustment is an attempt to present a flat tyre patch to the road during cornering when the lateral loads are attempting to make the car lift on one side. Obviously with ant-roll bars this effect is lessened. Also if a car has had a static ride height change (been lowered or raised) the camber will change and most likely not be ideal. Added adjustments allow us to deal with this. I would think with a mini that the amount of static neg camber required would be very small and I will be setting mine up to zero initially. The more camber you run the less tyre patch is used in a straight line and the tyres wear unevenly will eventually start to tram track which is bloody annoying. Tyres being expensive things, this is to be avoided if you are a tight arse like me. On the track neg camber is run optimally and the wear factor is not a concern.

Adjustable rear toe though I have never used it will effect the way the vehicle turns into a corner and most probably track (I,m guessing here). I reckon that if you got it wrong the car would be non-linear in its response to the steering wheel though I could be wrong here as I admit to never having tried it.

Caster is the amount of trail the road wheel is set up with behind the King Pin axis. The more it has the heavier the steering will be and the more self centering action it will have. The more it has will also cause the car to track better in a straight line.

I have never wheel aligned a Mini but I know that when I do the driver will definitly be sitting in the car with a half load of fuel in the tank(s). The small size of the car loaded with a driver and fuel would have a fairly big effect on static settings and if the guy doing the alignment didn't like it I will go elsewhere, especially if the car had had a ride height change and has the adjustments to deal with the changes.

Other people obviously fit caster/camber adjusters for road use. What settings do they run? Also rear toe settings would be interesting. Better to get it right the first time than waste money and time chasing something like this. A lot of W/A operaters have got very little knoowledge beyond the book. Find a guy with FWD race experience if you can. FWD runs different toe settings to RWD. Mid engined cars like an MR2 are different again. A mate of mine has and MR2 which had the settings changed by someone who didn't understand what he was doing and it was evil. we had to hunt high and low to find someone to fix it. That is another point. When the car is set up and right get all the settings for future reference.

Fred Puhn wrote good book on chassis design and modifications and I believe it has been revised and updated. It is worth getting, It is an easy read for those who have very little knowledge of the subject. My son has been reading it and he can't find it at the moment so I cannot check the full title of the book. Any good automotive book shop would know it. Also if you Google these search terms you will find out a lot more. I don't know much about car suspensions as I am into karts and all my knowledge derives from that.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:56 pm
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Location: Brisbane
miniVan wrote:
what do i need to have adjustable camber front/rear?
what do i need to have adjustable toe on rear?


Front - Adjustable Bottom Arms
Can't find any for sale on EBAY

(You will also need adjustable tie rods)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43120&item=7933789431&rd=1&ssPageName=WD2V

Rear - Adjustable brackets
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7934131691&category=33581&sspagename=WDVW

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:40 pm 
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998cc
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Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:44 pm
Posts: 1084
Location: Far North Queensland
Besser, I caught up with the guy at Noosa HillClimb, unfortunately he doesn't know what the sway bar is off, found it in the boot of a car with others at the wreckers. He wasn't overly happy with it anyway, used to hit his exhaust as he had it mounted under the car running forward. I steered him toward the K-Mac bars mentioned above. Sorry, this was a dead end for you. You could spend a weekend at the wreckers if you were keen, must be something that would work. Steve


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 6:19 pm
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Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW
miniVan wrote:
few questions

what do i need to have adjustable camber front/rear?
what do i need to have adjustable toe on rear?

does a rear sway bar reduce road holding of rear hence less understeer because it oversteers before this occurs or does in increase road holding of front to reduce understeer


re the rear toe adjustment, there is already provision made (sort of). Shims can be put in or removed from the front of the outer brackets. Adding shims will make it toe-in less, even toe-out. Toe-out can be useful on the track as it gives you some rear wheel steer, but it is evil on the road... :x

For rear camber adjustment there are adjustable brackets. Some are downright flimsy. Look before you buy.
I gave mine 1* neg camber by filing the bracket hole upwards 5mm, then welding the bottom side of the hole and filing to fit the shaft. No it's not adjustable but it looks horn. 8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:36 pm 
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1098cc
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Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:19 pm
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Location: Helensburgh NSW
drmini in aust wrote:
I gave mine 1* neg camber by filing the bracket hole upwards 5mm, then welding the bottom side of the hole and filing to fit the shaft. No it's not adjustable but it looks horn. 8)


What is the advantage of having neg camber on the back wheels?

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 Post subject: Two Wheeling!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:49 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 11:32 am
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Location: Sthrn HiLoLands, NSW, Australia
Chris wrote:
drmini in aust wrote:
I gave mine 1* neg camber by filing the bracket hole upwards 5mm, then welding the bottom side of the hole and filing to fit the shaft. No it's not adjustable but it looks horn. 8)


What is the advantage of having neg camber on the back wheels?


Even though Minis tend to understeer, you still benefit greatly by having a rear end that bites rather than tucks a wheel under and slides....now... when you are up on two wheels the tyres are more vertical with a flatter contact patch as well!! :wink:

Neg on the rear tends to make the car a more nuetral handler...

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 Post subject: Re: Two Wheeling!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 8:21 pm 
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1098cc
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Location: Helensburgh NSW
9YaTaH wrote:
Even though Minis tend to understeer, you still benefit greatly by having a rear end that bites rather than tucks a wheel under and slides....now... when you are up on two wheels the tyres are more vertical with a flatter contact patch as well!! :wink:

Neg on the rear tends to make the car a more nuetral handler...


I can't follow that logic. I have never experienced it so am loathe to say it is wrong but would it be true to say that if the rear sticks more then an understeering car will understeer more? I definitly agree that when it is on two wheels it is an advantage! The inference would have to be that if the car was neutralised by the addition of neg camber then we had a problem or the neg camber did something that was unexpected like take away grip from the rear which may be what happens as there is less tyre patch working. This would tend to neutralise the car by reducing the ultimate grip and cornering capability. What really is needed is to increase the front grip and bring it more in line with the grip of the rear. Have beam axles gone out of favour in minis? They used to be all the go in the UK.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:04 pm 
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Location: near Baulkham Hills, NSW
I just find a bit of neg camber on the rear more predictable. Don't forget it's hydro, I have comp rear bumpstops on rear only, that increases the rear roll stiffness and makes it more chuckable into corners. It's only 1* or so anyway.
Back when I had toe-out on the rear- now that was scary.. :P

<edit> beam axles? Seen 1 or 2 on the track, never on the road. Looked flimsy. Probably illegal now on the road, anyhow.
Not like UK where you can register just about anything.. :lol:

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