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 Post subject: radiator overflow
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:25 am 
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998cc
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Hi - the Cooper S arrived this morning having survived the journey across the big ditch, and is happily becoming acquainted with its new family. All is good :D
A question - I've had this problem before with other cars (in particular an MGA) - topping up the radiator to full results in it spewing out the overflow when shut down. Weather is mild, car not seemingly running too hot, no boiling, just expansion thru the overflow.
Is this normal for these cars, and do you just let it find its own level and leave it at that? I put a full litre of water in to start with which brought it to full, and it has spewed most of that I reckon. (I ended up changing the top tank on the MGA and put a catch tank in).

Anyway, time to go and get a bit more acquainted! :wink:
Peter.

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1969 Mini Cooper S MKII (1330)
1972 Honda 750/4 (his),1976 Honda 400/4 (hers)
1982 Honda CB1100RC (ours)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:44 am 
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i was having this problem...

i think it's air in the system...

try running the car up to operating temperature with the radiatior cap off, then, when the bubbles stop top it up and replace the cap...

i did that and it hasn't bubbled over once... even on a 40-million degree day recently...


just re-read it..

if you utterly fill the radiator, it will spit about a litre out, IIRC

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:53 am 
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1360cc
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Location: Geelong, Victoria
Most Mini's will spit out a certain amount of water, then not loose anymore.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:53 pm 
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1275cc
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Best advice is to go the wreckers and buy a catch tank or catch "bottle" and fit it somewhere along the firewall. Buy one because an old coke bottle detracts from the visual image of a classic car.

Vizzard - in one of his books - comments that some engine spit out radiator fluid and some don't and that its not worth chasing the cause, just fit a catch tank plus a suitable radiator cap and the problem is solved.

Personally I feel that like thermostats, current radiator caps are made in the bowles of asia somewhere and are not up to scratch. The calibration of of the pressures is not good and the radiator on any mini (let alone a 1275) is only just adequate. It doesn't take much of a temp increase or compression load (ie up a hill giving it the boot) to make the water rise a bit and increase the radiator pressure and spit out a bit of fluid. Sooner or later these bits spat out leave insufficient cooling fluid.

Fit a catch tank with a bi-directional radiator cap.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:00 pm 
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Mike_Byron wrote:
Buy one because an old coke bottle detracts from the visual image of a classic car.


it's ok once you've got that familiar orange smear around the bottom of the bottle.... looks like it's been there since zetland :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:09 pm 
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SooperDooperMiniCooper ExpertEngineering
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Location: Under the bonnet son!
I did this to My Cooper S some years ago and have had 10 years of trouble free operation.

I mounted it beneath the guard right up in the top of the back corner. There is a hole beside the windscreen wiper motor just the right size for a overflow hose to the radiator to go through. I found a brass BMC tank to do the job from a moke of some description.

BMC was very nice to have provided the hole.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:34 pm 
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is that the aerial hole?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:04 pm 
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Location: Under the bonnet son!
I dunno, it might be. I thought they used carrier pigeons for messages all the way back then. Maybe they were just very small and squeezed through the hole.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:51 pm 
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Bimmer Twinky
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ah ha---oops

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.


Last edited by TheMiniMan on Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:56 pm 
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Bimmer Twinky
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ok, There are certain facts of physics that dictate -->when temp increases, pressure increases with it...The "Expansion" initially caused by the temp increase while warming your car up to correct opperating temp,,, creates a higher pressure in the cooling system & the water expands,,, & as it cools, the water then contracts/shrinks (for want of a better term) as the temp in your car increases it will push water out cause you have filled the system when it`s cold & there`s no room for expansion.

As one guy said earlier (Cush was sort of right but for a different reason) --> he said that he fired the car up,,, then waited till it was pretty well at opperating temp & all the bubbles (bleeding) has stopped & then topped it up & fitted the cap... In this situation the whole system is allready hot,,, allready expanded most of where it would expand too, & once the cap is back on , then job done, it basically won`t push much more than that, maybe just a tad.... But if he checked it once it returned to cold again, i`ll bet my left testical that the level is low again, simply because physics dictates that the water will contract (shrink) once it cools again... & as it does that it sucks some air back in to the system taking up the space that once was filled with hot expanded water.

Other things take place here too,,, When driving around, the car will sit at it`s opperating temp, but once you turn it off, there`s no cooling effect for the last few cycles of the engine,,, it`s created heat, but that heat takes time to transfer to all the metal in the block,,, then to the water thru the bolck/head assy, then to the radiator,,, then thru the fins & out to the air,,, BUT!!!! You`ve turned it off, so it "heat soaks",,, Basically the engine temp rises significantly & isn`t actually being cooled directly after. hence the reason why later model cars have the thermo fans fitted, some using the temp sender to turn themselves off well after the engine has been turned off & this way it helps stop the heat soak,,, electric water pumps are also good for that sort of situation.

However, it`s not a problem,,, it`s quite normal & the std mini cooling system (if in good order) is well capable of looking after all that.

If you fill the system when it`s cold,,, it will push some out as it heats up & after your turn off the car,,, then it will cool & contract & the level will be low once more,,, leave it tho because once you fire the car up again, it will expand to being full again once it`s got back up to opperating temp

Got It!!!!!?????

This is all only if there`s nothing wrong.

other reasons it pushes water "CAN" be things like a blown head gasket, or cracked head or blocked radiator or thermostat stuck etc etc etc

If you have worries about it then the best thing to do is to have it checked but a mini specialist but also you could help it by buying one of the old skool metal "Expansion Tanks" (like mokes had as standard),,, these are very very good things & are worth their weight in gold. (flat cap on the radiator & pressure cap on the expansion tank) & make sure the hose between the 2 is clamped & evacuated of all air in that line. (otherwise it won`t work properly).


oky-doky? Easy-peasy?

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:20 pm 
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998cc
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:41 am
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Thank you folks for your speedy and comprehensive replies 8)
I do understand a little bit about the physics and expansion etc, and like I said, had similar issues in an MGA and the addition of an expansion tank for that solved the problem - well, at least saved on coolant!
That's probably the way I'll go, but in the meantime I'll just accept that the water needs to find its own level and won't panic when I fill it up and it spews a bit when I turn it off.

Cheers for your input! :D

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1969 Mini Cooper S MKII (1330)
1972 Honda 750/4 (his),1976 Honda 400/4 (hers)
1982 Honda CB1100RC (ours)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:20 pm 
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848cc
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Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:51 pm
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Stating the obvious the pressure rise allowed in the cooling system depends on the sealing surface on the cap and radiator spout, also on the type of coolant you use as some expand faster and more than others. Maybe polish the spout with some fine wet and dry, replace the cap, lube the seal lightly with rubber grease and run a good quality coolant.
Shall we see photos of the purchase soon?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:22 pm 
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998cc
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Photos? yes you shall!! :D
I will take some decent shots and post them soon - probably over the weekend or early next week.
Cheers.

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1969 Mini Cooper S MKII (1330)
1972 Honda 750/4 (his),1976 Honda 400/4 (hers)
1982 Honda CB1100RC (ours)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 5:38 pm 
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998cc
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Pics now here.....
http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=27947
:D

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1969 Mini Cooper S MKII (1330)
1972 Honda 750/4 (his),1976 Honda 400/4 (hers)
1982 Honda CB1100RC (ours)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:02 pm 
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from a mechanics point of view i would check to see if ur radiator is blocked and that u dont have an in the system

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oil leak?..what oil leak..that puddle under the car is just sweat from all that horsepower

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