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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:15 pm 
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1098cc
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g'day just wandering if it is possible to put a 1275 cc head on a 1100 cc engine with out any problems?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:22 pm 
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You can BUT you will need to pocket the block as the cylinder bores on the 1275 are different from the spacing on the small bore blocks. If you don't pocket the block the valves will hit the block when they are fully open.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:29 pm 
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1275cc
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Short answer - no there are problems.

Longer answer, the longer valves in the 1275 head (all of the 1275 heads) will bottom out on the block. 1275 blocks have bigger bores and the valves open into the bore.

However you can cut recesses into the block surfaces so that the valves dont bottom. Its been done many times.

Having said all that - a worked small bore head (eg 12g202) mostly works better on an 1100 than the better designed 1275 head. Many other factors come into play (such as carbies, cams, extractors etc) but the same gains can be achieved by using a small bore head that doesn't involve pocketing the block to suit the valves on the big bore head.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:46 pm 
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1275cc
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The compression is a problem. I have a pocketed 998 block in the shed. But, the 1275 head has a larger combustion chamber than the smallbores. As the more cc's, the more combustion chamber volume needed to keep the compression ratios at a sane level.

You would need to use high compression pistons, or skim the head to bring the chamber volume down.

When it comes to using 1275 heads, I guess the easiest way, is to use a 1275 block to go with it.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:03 pm 
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1275cc
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for an experiment I tried the 1275 on a 998. Worked very well with no problems.
Now for clarification. It was a standard 1275 head with no oversize valves, not skimmed at all. The 998 was totally standard, had standard pistons and cam, ie no high lift.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:08 pm 
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1275cc
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Simply put - you were lucky

Even a diferent tappet clearance could have put the valves into the block. The valves are over the block surface even on a standard head, Its by some 12 mm.

But it gives Carter some thought to toss over and he is aware it usually is a probelm.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:10 pm 
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Postally Verbose
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Damn , I was about to say the same as TK as I ran one like that for 10,000k's at least . Must have all been standard then .

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:29 pm 
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Actually, the combustion chamber on a 1275 head is SMALLER not bigger, than any smallbore.
All 1275 heads- AEG163, 12G940, 12G1316 = 21.4cc
850 and 998 heads 12A1456 etc = 24.5cc
997 and 1098 heads 12G202 = 26.1cc
998 Cooper heads 12G295 = 28.3cc

So fitting a 1275 one to a smallbore will raise your compression ratio, not lower it. HC pistons are not needed.

I ran a 12G940 head on my 1098 (bored to 1220) many years ago. it flew.
Block was notched for clearance and it ran a 544 cam and stock rockers.

When `da Moke' is being repowered with an 1132 I'll use a 1275 head again.
Why?
1. I have a bunch of 940 and 1316 heads. 8)
2. It beats spending my money and time porting a 202 etc.
3. They are a more rigid head so less gasket problems.
4. KC recommends them, he even gets away with an RE13 cam and no block notching, by ensuring the exhaust valves are sunk into head a bit.
:wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 7:44 pm 
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1275cc
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Ahh sorry. Well my sources are wrong. Not the first time. (It's a mini 'specialist' here in Adelaide wo warned me about this)

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1977 Leyland Mini LS - Project LS-T 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:55 pm 
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1275cc
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"specialist" lol

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:32 pm 
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1275cc
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Yerp "specialist" :wink:

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1977 Leyland Mini LS - Project LS-T 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:25 am 
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1275cc
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Have this info on my computer, from some other website..

Quote:
Engine - Small-bore engine, 12G940 head fitting


There is no specific large-bore (1275cc-based) head casting number that will fit the 998 engine any easier than any other. They all have the same problems - generally requiring exhaust valve relief cut-outs machined into the block and re-alignment of the front water gallery transfer ports. However, I would avoid using heads with valves bigger than 35.7mm on the intake since these are too big for most 998 engines unless they are absolutely full-race spec where top end power at high rpm is all that is required.



First of all it is worth checking that you actually need to make the relief cut-outs since some heads have a big enough head face to exhaust valve face clearance to allow fitment without the cut-outs when the standard cam and rocker gear is retained.



If possible, measure the actual valve lift you are getting with the current fitted set-up. Carefully set the valve lash clearance (clearance between valve tip and rocker) to 0.012-in./0.30mm. With an exhaust valve in the fully closed position, position a dial gauge (DTI) on the valve cap, zero the gauge and then rotate the engine until maximum valve lift is achieved - counting the amount of lift indicated by the gauge. This is likely to be around 0.270-in./6.86mm. The maximum you are likely to see is 0.280-in./7.11mm if you have a particularly good set-up since the standard 998 camshaft will only have 0.235-in./5.97mm lift at the lobe, the maximum rocker ratio is likely to be 1.25 - the valve lash setting being taken from the result. So 0.235-in. x 1.25 = 0.294-in., less the 0.012-in. lash setting gives 0.282-in. BUT it is rare that the standard sintered steel rockers give anything like this lift ratio. From personal experience the best to be expected is 1.22 - so the actual nett full lift will be less.



If you can't check the valve lift because the head has already been removed, you will need to check the lift at the cam using a DTI positioned on a push rod placed in one of the exhaust valve followers riding on the camshaft whatever reading you get, multiply this by the rocker ratio and minus the valve lash setting detailed above.



With the 1275 head upside down, accurately measure the depth of the exhaust valve face in comparison to the head face. This measurement needs to be at the very least the same as the exhaust valve lift registered as above. Preferably greater. It is possible to increase this distance by cutting the exhaust valve seats a little further into the head and/or removing material from the face of the exhaust valve. I would only look to gain around 0.030-in./0.76mm by doing this though. Alternatively, going to a race-spec exhaust valve may nett some more clearance since the valve seat edge to valve head face on race valves tends to be less than standard OE type valves. If doing this when using the standard cast iron guides, it is essentially you use either a chromed-stem type competition valve or one of the later nitrocarborised/Tuftrided type valves (charcoal grey/black in appearance.



All of the above is totally affected by camshaft type and rocker gear used. 1.5 ratio rockers simply don't work in general on road-going 998s in my experience so should be avoided. The probable maximum cam lift you may be able to entertain using the above criteria would be 0.250-in./6.35mm as used on the more 'performance' standard profiles such as the MG Metro, standard 1275 Metro and older 998 Cooper and S cams. In which case you'd be looking for around 0.293-in./7.44mm clearance between exhaust valve face and head face to avert using cut-outs.



The head gasket is your safety margin - so don't add this into the equation at any point. Crushed as fitted it gives around 0.028-in./0.71mm to 0.032-in./0.81mm thickness - just enough for that safety margin. Don't ever over-rev the engine or miss a gear-shift though!



And talking of head gaskets - you will need to use the 1275 item to get a reasonable alignment for sealing both the combustion chambers and the front water gallery transfer ports in the head. The 998 head gasket over-hangs the 1275 head combustion chambers on the exhaust sides and doesn't give as good a line-up of those water gallery ports.



It is prudent to plug the front water gallery transfer port holes and re-drill them using a 1275 head gasket as a template. This is pretty easy even with the engine in the car by tapping the holes then fitting suitably sized grub screws which are then drilled to allow water through in line with the 1275 gasket. Crude but effective and means the block face doesn't need re-surfacing afterwards. If this realignment isn't done, the head gasket is likely to leak water out and down the front of the engine.



If cut-outs are necessary in the block, the easiest way to establish their relative position is to use the 998 head gasket. Place on the block using head studs for alignment. Scribe around the outer exhaust edges of the gasket onto the block surface. Use a fly-cutter of suitable size to machine the cutouts in. It is possible to use a die grinder to make these cutouts, but only in desperation! The depth needs to be sufficient to clear however far passed the head face the exhaust valve will be when the valve is at full lift. To establish this simply subtract the exhaust valve face to head face measurement from the full lift measurement. To be safe I would add 0.040-in./1mm to this depth to ensure no valve to block contact despite using the gasket as a safety margin. And avoid going so deep as to intrude on the top ring land.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:12 pm 
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1275cc
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Ran a standard non-skimmed 940 in Henry without the pocketing and had nil issues. Made him go well on the long hauls but was a bit of a slug around town.

Can be done - pocketed the block in the garage(it was rubbish - spun the thrust bearings after the fellow I bought it off said it was all good to go!!!) - good point - wear gloves as the dremel and the carbide tip create shitloads of swarf. As I found out, it is razor sharp and I spent hours sitting on the floor of the garage with the wifes tweezers ripping out the aforementioned swarf...from my hands!!...lol

Hooroo

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:30 pm 
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1275cc
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So are we saying to Carter -
go ahead and do it with pocketing
Go ahead and do it without pocketing
Dont do it

Is it only a 12G940 head you can use or can it also be a AEG163 head.

Can somebody summarise - I am not game.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:15 pm 
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1275cc
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YYepp - dont do it...my story is i needed it done as i was without a car - then forgot about it...lol

if you do it - pocket it...but have plenty of bits for the dremel as you chew through a couple...

Hooroo

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