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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:50 pm 
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Curly wrote:
The head pictured has had valve seat inserts fitted. They are much harder than the cast iron head material and don't suffer seat recession.


Nope, look carefully they are not hardenned seats. They are STOCK cast iron seats that have been ground back for performance, I assure you.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:52 pm 
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damn your right. Stupid me. I see the inserts (looks exactly like mine). Of course there's no VSR with inserts!
no need for additives either!!

A Miracle from God!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:00 pm 
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Interesting...and no doubt Graham knows his shite.....but I will still use it every 2nd or 3rd fill.

Flashlube is not expensive. I think of it as insurance...and we all have that...right?.... :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:04 pm 
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OK since someone has professed Graham's demigod status I will tell you all:

The main reason for valve seat recession and wear is heat. Agree?

The more shrouded the chamber is the hotter the exhaust valves run. This is especially the case on stock small bore heads as they are like heart shaped with considerable amount of shrouding around the valves. Graham says the small bore heads all run considerably hotter than big bore because they do not get any cooling from the intake charge.

This is the real reason why exhaust valves last longer on big bores and modified chamber heads. Nothing to do with additives or not.


On the subject of additives Graham says his experience with products (which will not be named) that are made as lead replacement additive loses up to 4hp on his dyno after sitting for 24hours. He has no idea what it does to the fuel but it does something and he can prove it any day of the week he says. This is why he says to me "Stay away from fuel additives Chong, They are a worry". He also says they coat your chambers and plugs with residue.

He does not think they don't work, maybe they do and they probably do. But there are better solutions.

Fuelstar and other tin inline replacement devices: These originated during WW2 when the Bombers were detonating when boost was being turned up on their engines or something like that... Tin is a better additive than lead for this purpose and hence why Graham recommends a Fuelstar. He thinks they work and work well.

My thoughts: Since i am running a GR special head anyway I should have no issues about valve seat recession like his 1400 stroker. Coupled to this I have a Fuelstar which I profess is an expensive buy to start with, but over the life of the Fuelstar I will save on products like Valvemaster or Flashlube.

That's all for now 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:11 pm 
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Lets get this straight:

THERE ARE NO HARDENNED VALVE SEATS!

The top 2 pics look like there are inserts due to the light. The bottom 2 you can clearly see there are no inserts.

Look really carefully. They are simply ground back valve seats.

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Last edited by Lillee on Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:12 pm 
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ausmini mod
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TK wrote:
damn your right. Stupid me. I see the inserts (looks exactly like mine). Of course there's no VSR with inserts!
no need for additives either!!

A Miracle from God!


They are not inserts. Read Chongs reply... its info from the man himself...

Peter.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:20 pm 
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It would be interesting to see a head like a 12G295 or 202 which is fully ported and shaped... that ran no additives.

Peter.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:33 pm 
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I would also like to add, this car apears in Issue 5 of The Mini Experience Magazine on the bottom right of page 28. That article is the Ausmini Dyno Day which the 1400 came second and scored 79.0hp.

It runs a single HIF44 with no air filter, has done roughly 30,000 miles on pure unleaded petrol for over 10 years (1995).

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:42 pm 
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Lillee wrote:
HIF44


HS6

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:00 pm 
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pristic wrote:
Lillee wrote:
HIF44


HS6


Yeah Chong, get it right :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:21 pm 
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Gawd, even I knew it was a HS6. :roll: :P :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:35 pm 
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:roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:41 pm 
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OMG CHONG! Mistakes! :shock: :shock: :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:59 pm 
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Quote:
OMG CHONG! Mistakes!


At least now we are starting to walk through the valley of recessed valves with some degree of analysis. We are not just two camps - one with no flashlube and burnt vlaves and then one with no flash lube and no burnt valves.

There is no difficulty in proving that valves become recessed and burnt. There is no difficulty is showing some valves are not recessed or burnt.

I think we have moved forward analytically and maybe some sensible non emotional reccommendations for all may come from it. Personally I will stay with Flashlube until its value is disproved. But..... I do have an open mind


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:25 pm 
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An engine that is tuned and timed correctly will quite often not get hot enough to cause the micro-welding of the valve to the seat which is the cause of recession.


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