Nope... just going to wing it.
probably more rover wrecking, and make room for the new ones coming

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Indeed. Piss that red one off tomorrow.

have to get rid of about ten cars before christmas,
or find another storage shed

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I got room for one, maaaybe two (and 4 or so outside) if you need me.
We'd have a mini get together every night... bit of mini bonding.

my car doesn't go outside,
i'd never see them again if i took them to your house

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Ok now i don't know the laws in ALL the states but i know most of them in WA and QLD. Now in Qld the earliest you can get a P licence is when your 17 then you have to hold it for 3 years before you get opens (only 2 years in WA). This means that in Qld the earliest you can get your opens is 20 (WA is 19). Now i have always been against this whole P plates are dickheads crap and still am. In this world we have dicksheads, cautious drivers, good drivers and bad drivers. A dickhead will always be a dickhead ect ect. Better DRIVER TRAINING is the only real solution not this whole limit the size crap. I have a mate drives a old VN commodore would come in fine under power standards, as a passenger in his car I am normally a little scared, why? cause he tailgates people really close. Now if he is driving his VN, a shitty old corolla or a porche he will still tailgate people. Now my daily transport is a motor bike and i can tell you there are so many people that tailgate and its scary cause i know my stopping distance is half there's yet they are that close that if i brake hard they will run me over! what do they accomplish? being that little bit closer, thats it, i used to solve this when i had my old hi lux ute with a big steel tray. Hit brakes hard, make em almost crash into me then drive away again, if they tailgate repeat steps, they will either stop tailgating or fly past ya. But on my bike its if they can't stop in time, then i'm prob good as dead and the most of these drivers are not P platers, there just dickheads. This is only one example of driver skills/ inteligence there are many more with speeding and the like but i won't go into them. Now i've been on the road for about 4 years now, came off P plates a couple of months ago have done defensive driving course to further my skills now not trying to big note myself but I feel i can drive better then atleast 80% of other motorists, where i work i see examples of stupidity with cars everyday and sorry if i offend anyone but the worst drivers tend to be the middle age to older group, these are drivers that feel that they have been on the road for 30 years and they no how to drive but can't park properly, will cut people off or fail to give way ect. If you wanna point fingers for every P plater that drives in a way that puts me in danger there are probably 10 people with open licenses that put me at risk. Only solution is TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING, just get the stupid people off the road. In QLD when going for L's you can get several give way questions wrong and they will still give you your L's, these are situations where got wrong in real world would mean crash's. And these people are allowed to go out straight after and drive a car, teach them and they will learn, try piss em off with this limit power crap and they will rebel, all it will create is a market for mods that you can sneak in to get more power.

Ok i think i have gone on long enough for now
sorry but i had to say it this is one arguement that i feel tends to be looked on very aragently and if they wanna fix the problem TRAINING is the only solution and not just for P plates but for everyone!!

Well a lot has been discussed since I first saw this post yesterday.
And I'd say they all have merits

But it is the driver not the car. Its like Guns...It’s not the gun which kills but it the person using it. With Cars they are normal 1ton of weight and are a killing machine. The young DO believe they are indestructible and the older they get, It won't happen to me factor comes into it. I have been a sales rep for 6 years and on the road for the whole time. Seen many big accidents, been in many close calls and seen a lot of stupid driving. I can't say it been majority P Platers just stupid people.
I don't think reducing the size of the engine will solve anything as they will get black Market Mods or they just drive smaller cars just as stupidly. Additionally once they are off the P's they will go the next step with the fastest car they can get.
Their is no sure fix to death on the roads but it may save someone life and that is good.
I also believe every new person should do courses with refreshers.

Finally to finish my 20 bobs worth my nephew did a Speed kill’s course with the police in Sydney at Eastern Creek and even appeared on TV. He drives an Old VW and he scares me when he drives. He got booked for speeding in a School Zone and his mum is a Cop.
Education does not always work....it’s the person with the Gun

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I know what you mean about tailgating, I always try and leave a good sized gap between me and the car in front but inevitably some wally decides that the space I'm leaving is for him to overtake me then chop in front. I've had cars so far up my ass while driving the mini all I can see in the rear view mirror is their grille Sorry makka but alot of truck drivers do this as well regardless of the fact that I'm doing the speed limit, in fact I've even been run off the road by a semi pulling a load of LPG. Doing a 110 in a 110 zone when the asshole comes screaming down on you like your standing still then crosses halfway across double yellows trying to overtake, when he got close enough to break my drivers side mirror I decided the ditch at the side of the road looked more inviting then under the tires of an 18 wheeler
While I agree it's not all about age and some younger drivers are good drivers, the young are also alot more prone to peer pressure with their mates in the car and tend to show off. Younger drivers also have alot less road experience and this does make a difference no matter how many advanced driver courses they do. Younger drivers also have a tendency to feel immortal as well and when you combine all this with a high powered car you are asking for trouble. As a general rule drivers get more cautious as they get older becuase they've seen or been involved in accidents or even lost close friends to accidents and realise that no matter how good you are there are alot of idiots out there that can run into you unless your really paying attention.
I've found cities tend to breed offensive drivers alot more then country areas, believe me if you drove a taxi in Sydney for 2 years like I did (without an accident) you'll see some incredibly stupid and dangerous driving by all age groups because everyone has to be where they're going yesterday. In country areas most major accidents are caused by driver fatigue and wildlife and usually involve holiday makers on long trips. Locals usually are very careful if the have to drive at dawn or dusk becuase they're aware of the wildlife and the damage they can do, recently a bloke was killed on the highway close to here not because he was speeding but a Roo jumped out in front of him (he was only looking at the road and not looking to the sides as well like the locals) well he hit the roo which went over the bonnet and through the windscreen and killed him.
Banning P platers from owning high powered cars is a step in the right direction, noone can argue that. However more is needed , I think that every P plater or any driver for that matter caught driving dangerously should be taken to the scene of a fatal accident, maybe seeing the result of bad driving in person will take that feeling of immortality away. I know losing my best mate to an accident while I was on my P's really opened my eyes to what a bad driver I was at the time (I was a real lead foot which wasn't so bad when I was in my 998 mini but when I drove my mates V8 Torana I was deadly and stupid). Lucky for me my attitude changed and I survived my teens and have only ever been involved in one major accident which was unnaviodable (getting t barred into oncomming traffic with nowhere to go).
Until we can change the attitude of young drivers they will continue to be a high risk group, limiting the power of the cars they drive alone will help but not stop the fatalities. Advanced driver courses might help a few but also might reinforce the notion of being immortal because they believe they are such great drivers and show off their new skills to their mates. The only way is to change attitudes which is a big ask becuase as all the parents of teens would know teens nearly always believe they know best and don't listen or take advice.

what do you mean... i started some important, thought provoking discussion on the merits of proposed p-plater laws. You're the one who came in with your big Red P on the windscreen and your handbrake on.

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any one here the stat's lately for the most likely to be involved in a fatal accident ??? 17 to 24 y/o females ???
wolfman i know there are alot of maniac truckdrivers out there i'm the first to speak out at the dickheads in trucks ...........
i have noticed in the last week (since monday) that the amount of dickheads on the rd has increased i leave room infront of me so if i have to stopp quick i dont topple the car in front ......
and it is true about it being people of all ages .........
BUT what they are tring to do is save the lives of younger people they have a chance of helping young drivers to be a more responcable member of the community ........
how you going to make a person who has had there licence for 10 or more years change there habbit's so why not try to help the young people in twenty years the road's will be safer place to be cos this generation of drivers will be in a better place if you know what i mean
all they want to do is help you guys stay alive the biggest point you all miss is when a young person die's in a car accident who suffers the most other p platers cos the cops come down hard on the others hell no
what about the kids mum and dad and brothers and sisters and grand parents .............
it is alot bigger if youlook at the big picture
makka

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Its not just the P-platers that are in accidents (obviously they're involved more than everyone else, but thats just because the dickheads die on the way as everyone grows up)..............for example: some mid-40's woman driving a dirty great 4WD nearly killed me a coupla days ago after she went through a red light at about 60k/h....she didn't even notice that a)the light was red, b) that i was there and c)just how close she had come to killing me........now for the moral of my story..........restrictions on the vehicles aren't the way to go, driver education and training are going to be FAR more successful and will last a lifetime. I'm sure that if abovementioned 4WD mum had had better training and education in her youth she would have been less likely to run that red light and nearly wipe me out. It's like rider safe and the other stuff you have to do to get a motorcycle liscence, it teaches you proper techniques to avoid accidents and stay alive. The same should apply for car liscences. There are always going to be dickheads around (no matter what laws are in place) and if they kill themselves then its their own fault...but the important bit is educating everyone else how to avoid becoming involved (that means everything from not getting in the car with them, to setting up your brakes on the way into an intersection and scanning ahead for danger)

sorry if i've repeated anything anyone else has already said, but i'm in a rush a dont have time to read 4 pages....sorry

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oh yeah...forgot, 4WD mum didn't have any kids or anyone else in her car to distract her......and she happily sailed off down the road completely oblivious

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This is not an emotive argument, it is a logical one.

Prior to 1990 in NSW there was no training or power to weight restrictions on people who wanted to get a motorcycle licence. If you did the test, all you had to do was successfully do a u-turn in front of the tester and voila - you could go out and ride the most powerful 250cc motorcycle that money could buy, hell you could even get on it with your Ls. Enter the Suzuki RGV, fantastic bike designed to be a homologation model for production racing. Bodies were piling up. Accident investigation found that most of the bodies did not apply brakes, or locked them up before coming to a sudden stop. The reason was determined to be that the riders who were killed did not know how to do it properly and were not learning through experience alone.

Two measures were introduced, being power to weight restrictions on the bikes you could ride on L and P licence, plus subsidised rider training. I have done the courses, and ride a motorcycle every day. I know that the training is keeping me alive, because i have learnt not only techniques, but attitude.

The proof is in the statistics (source RTA annual reports and Bureau of Statistics).
1990 - out of 1664 reported motorcycle accidents, L+P licenced riders were involved in 870 crashes (52%)

2000 - only 719 reported motorcycle accidents, a reduction of 57%. Of these accidents, L+P licensed riders were involved in 150 accidents (20%). In this period, the total number of licensed motorcycle riders in NSW increased by 100% to 400,370. Thus the real percentage of riders involved in accidents has reduced enormously.

These numbers show that a combination of training and power to weight restrictions works. Accept it. Change your attitude, stop your whinging, and live to be a ripe old age and still be driving your 100 year old mini

michael

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66 Mini Minor sponsored by http://www.lifeonthehedge.com.au/ The Dog Harness Specialists
It was a pleasure ausmini. I'll miss all you misfits and reprobates

i'd love to be driving it when it's 100 .. god.. i'd be 84..

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guns dont kill people

PEOPLE kill people

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