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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:49 am 
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Spaceboy wrote:
they are not suitable for an a-series and must be treated accordingly with the correct modifications and precautions to ensure you do not damage your engine.


OK, time for me to pipe in here, and I'll do it in point form (cuz I'm at work ;-)

• Ignition is the single biggest black box subject in the auto industry and as such carries a huge amount of ignorance particularly amongst the amateur enthusiasts.
• Phrases like “the Lucas pulled harder” and “I put a Pulsar in and it blew my engine” speak to that level of ignorance.
• In my experience the least understood component gets the blame for any calamity that occurs after that component is changed, whether it is setup correctly or not.
• There is an inexplicable notion that a distributor somehow makes power. It cannot. You can spin the little thing to 19,000 RPM and it still would not make one Shetland pony more power at the wheels: distributors help the engine make all the power it is capable of, no more. If it’s not specified correctly, not installed correctly or worn out, then it can only restrict the engine from making all the power it is capable of.
• The engine does not know what distributor it is being serviced by. Comparing apples to apples, a Lucas, Hitachi, Bosch or for that matter 123 or ECU controlled ignition WITH EXACTLY THE SAME CURVE will let the engine produce exactly the same power. Hell, it won’t know if the sparks are being generated by virgin fairies riding vandergraph generating exercycles! The big difference is if you can buy parts to get the distributor in perfect working order and change the curve to suit.
• Changing a mechanical curve means having replacement parts: there are 5 degrees of freedom when changing an advance curve: primary and secondary spring rate, primary spring preload, secondary spring cut-in and total advance. In order to change the rate of advance one has to change the springs themselves, so if you are having a distributor recurved you had better ask where the technician is getting his springs, or if he is winding them himself. No spring change, no rate change. It’s as simple as that. Lucas parts are NLA, and AFAIK Nissan (Hitachi) do not sell springs for 20 year old cars.
• In addition to the 5 degrees of freedom in the mechanical curve, there’s an additional variable: static advance. Static advance plus 2x the mechanical advance determines the total advance. If you set up your distributor completely wrong there’s a good chance of 1)overheating, 2)blowing a hole in the head gasket or 3)punching a hole in a piston. Following the 30 year old instructions for a Lucas distributor setup while installing a 123 is a sure bet to score one of these problems (see the first points, above ;-).
• When I did the article on using a Hitachi (AKA Pulsar) distributor in A and B series engines (you’re welcome) I put the HUGE caveat on it that the curve should not be used without modification to suit the application. Very few people follow this advice. If you just plunk it in and it doesn’t work, that does not mean that it’s a bad mod, you just executed it badly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:20 am 
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1360cc
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slinkey inc wrote:
But you see there is a common miss belief here on Ausmini that Pulsar dizzy's are dangerous.

Spaceboy very obviously hate Pulsar dizzy's but for those of us who like them he could at least not create a false illusion of danger (I wonder if he's ever tried one?). And accept that some of us enjoy moving towards towards the modern technology at an affordable price.


i didnt say they were "dangerous", and please dont make assumptions on my behalf.

as with any modifications you should consult a professional to make sure it will be suitable and not risk damage to your engine.


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 Post subject: Distributor substitution
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:12 am 
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1275cc
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IMO all people who have something to say against any sort of Distributor the adapted to a Mini engine ie "It blew my engine up" This is their way of saying I just slammed one in Revved the hell out of the engine and drove the car like I stole it and it blew up. Why blame a distributor which like mentioned here many times before, needed the advance curve altered to suit your engine. Therse sort of Mods are not the thing you do on a Budget as a job half done always ends up costing more with the distruction costs due to one cutting corners.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:13 am 
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chichm wrote:
Following the 30 year old instructions for a Lucas distributor setup while installing a 123 is a sure bet to score one of these problems


I think that's where I went wrong with my 123 install -- I read the instructions, but reverted to Lucas point-setting methodology and held the rotor anti-clockwise while static timing the 123. Bingo, too much static advance.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:59 am 
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Convertible Mini wrote:
IMO all people who have something to say against any sort of Distributor the adapted to a Mini engine ie "It blew my engine up" This is their way of saying I just slammed one in Revved the hell out of the engine and drove the car like I stole it and it blew up. Why blame a distributor which like mentioned here many times before, needed the advance curve altered to suit your engine. Therse sort of Mods are not the thing you do on a Budget as a job half done always ends up costing more with the distruction costs due to one cutting corners.


THATS exactly my point... not blaming distributor, blaming lack of knowledge and stupidity. I shouldn't have had an unmodified distributor in there... modified is fine.

Kev (1310/71) - Not exactly ;) The reason I was ABLE to push it harder is because it would rev more (I blew it at 5000rpm ;) but before putting in the pulsar dizzy I could only rev it to about 4100rpm before power dissapeared.

Overall, I am not at all saying the dizzy broke my car, etc ,etc but I AM saying that the Pulsar dizzy is a good thing ONLY if you get the advance curve modified... then its happy days.
Like I said, I run one in this new motor (1132) and will run one in the Turbo motor I have on the boil... 123 would be nice, but for the $ I am happy with the Pulsar one.

Pete.
[/b]

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:12 am 
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I have not tried a pulsar.

But seriously what is so bad about points? Changing them is easy, adjusting them is easy. ?

Id say its easier than putting a different dizzy in your car, thats too much hard work for me .. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:26 am 
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Location: ASQUITH NSW, Engine size:1310
ive still got the pulsar dissy 1310/71 sold me, in a week or 2 i should have my car on the road and have the lucas dissy connected , so maybe i will drive on the standard dissy for a week and then the pulsar, dont know the condition of either, nor do either of them have vac/advance. so i will post up the results and my thoughts on this one

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:45 pm
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Location: Adelaide, SA
Quick search.

Spaceboy wrote:
they are not suitable for an a-series and must be treated accordingly with the correct modifications and precautions to ensure you do not damage your engine.
...
a pulsar dizzy is a bad idea, it will not suit your engine without a lot of modifications.
I am running standard points no worries., but i will upgrade to a petronix or similar at some stage. Dont forget to have your car dyno tuned including ignition.
...
only if the choke has the little screw on it to open the throttle, which can be adjusted..
i would ditch the pulsar dizzy
...
oh no! the pulsar dizzy strikes again!
...
we gotta stop people from putting these pulsar dizzy's in


Okay, I think that's enough, but more results came up i nthe search. :wink:

Spaceboy wrote:
i didnt say they were "dangerous", and please dont make assumptions on my behalf.

as with any modifications you should consult a professional to make sure it will be suitable and not risk damage to your engine.


Assumptions...? Never. Although you never said 'dangerous' I believe you implied it. What's with the whole 'bad idea' thing? That I don't get. :?

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Last edited by slinkey inc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:05 pm 
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Actually now I recall that soon after I fitted a Pulsar dizzy I had to replace my CV joints and I also had to replace the fuel pump diaphram. A coincidence? I think not! 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:08 pm 
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1360cc
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I haven't even installed the Pulsar dissy yet and I've had to rewire the whole car :cry:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:34 pm 
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ausmini mod
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Guys,

Dont get me started! After I blew the motor, I noticed that rust ate my A panels, floor and rear window sills... I can assure you it was not there before I put in the pulsar dizzy...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:39 pm 
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czerial wrote:
I have not tried a pulsar.

But seriously what is so bad about points? Changing them is easy, adjusting them is easy. ?

Id say its easier than putting a different dizzy in your car, thats too much hard work for me .. :lol:

You can leave a Pulsar untouched for 12 months and power won't change.
A points dizzy set up shmick on the dyno will go downhill with points and heel block wear, the timing will change I bet after 12 months you are 5HP down at least. :wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:01 pm 
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chichm wrote:
• When I did the article on using a Hitachi (AKA Pulsar) distributor in A and B series engines (you’re welcome)....


Well I guess that i will simply eat the Timtams myself since you are so far away. You will have to get by with a photo of what you could have had...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:32 pm 
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chichm wrote:
Spaceboy wrote:
they are not suitable for an a-series and must be treated accordingly with the correct modifications and precautions to ensure you do not damage your engine.


OK, time for me to pipe in here, and I'll do it in point form (cuz I'm at work ;-)

• Ignition is the single biggest black box subject in the auto industry and as such carries a huge amount of ignorance particularly amongst the amateur enthusiasts.
• Phrases like “the Lucas pulled harder” and “I put a Pulsar in and it blew my engine” speak to that level of ignorance.
• In my experience the least understood component gets the blame for any calamity that occurs after that component is changed, whether it is setup correctly or not.
• There is an inexplicable notion that a distributor somehow makes power. It cannot. You can spin the little thing to 19,000 RPM and it still would not make one Shetland pony more power at the wheels: distributors help the engine make all the power it is capable of, no more. If it’s not specified correctly, not installed correctly or worn out, then it can only restrict the engine from making all the power it is capable of.
• The engine does not know what distributor it is being serviced by. Comparing apples to apples, a Lucas, Hitachi, Bosch or for that matter 123 or ECU controlled ignition WITH EXACTLY THE SAME CURVE will let the engine produce exactly the same power. Hell, it won’t know if the sparks are being generated by virgin fairies riding vandergraph generating exercycles! The big difference is if you can buy parts to get the distributor in perfect working order and change the curve to suit.
• Changing a mechanical curve means having replacement parts: there are 5 degrees of freedom when changing an advance curve: primary and secondary spring rate, primary spring preload, secondary spring cut-in and total advance. In order to change the rate of advance one has to change the springs themselves, so if you are having a distributor recurved you had better ask where the technician is getting his springs, or if he is winding them himself. No spring change, no rate change. It’s as simple as that. Lucas parts are NLA, and AFAIK Nissan (Hitachi) do not sell springs for 20 year old cars.
• In addition to the 5 degrees of freedom in the mechanical curve, there’s an additional variable: static advance. Static advance plus 2x the mechanical advance determines the total advance. If you set up your distributor completely wrong there’s a good chance of 1)overheating, 2)blowing a hole in the head gasket or 3)punching a hole in a piston. Following the 30 year old instructions for a Lucas distributor setup while installing a 123 is a sure bet to score one of these problems (see the first points, above ;-).
• When I did the article on using a Hitachi (AKA Pulsar) distributor in A and B series engines (you’re welcome) I put the HUGE caveat on it that the curve should not be used without modification to suit the application. Very few people follow this advice. If you just plunk it in and it doesn’t work, that does not mean that it’s a bad mod, you just executed it badly.


marcel, for that, i'd we willing to send you a bottle of my first vintage home grown and brewed shiraz......

it'll be a few years tho.. :)

Quote:
and I'll do it in point form (cuz I'm at work


oh.... and it was basically an essay with dot points instead of paragraphs.. :P

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:15 am 
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Location: wasleys S.A.
With all this confusion with ignition systems it now appears quite obvious.
1 Fit high pressure mechanical fuel injection
2 Compression ignition

Instant A series diesel

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