G'day - anybody had any experience with SAFF fuel, 98 Octane? This is the enviro friendly stuff.
Have used it for the last couple of tanksfulls in the S, and think I am noticing more pinging than usual (had been using BP Ultimate before, and didn't notice as much ).
Anyone else experienced similar?
Peter.

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1969 Mini Cooper S MKII (1330)
1972 Honda 750/4 (his),1976 Honda 400/4 (hers)
1982 Honda CB1100RC (ours)

10+ ethanol blends are not recommended for vehicles fitted with carburettors as damage to the fuel system may result.

I've been using SAFF 98 in my red mini pretty much since it's been on the road (about 2 year) and SAFF 95 in the yellow Mini since we've owned it (about 3 years).

No issues, and at the Golden Grove station they pump the fuel for ya!

I run the 98 in my supercharged Mini, no pinging, and I bet that needs the higher octane more than your S.

Are you sure it's pinging more than usual or is it just you? It shouldn't ping at all....

BTW for those who aren't so educated, the only real issue with Ethanol is that it attracts water. Due to the hydroxyl group that makes it an 'alcohol'. This secondary attraction to water is called "hydrogen bonding". Basic year 11 and a bit of year 12 chemistry, nothing fancy.

Also it tends to eat plastic parts, but that really shouldn't be an issue in a Mini. As for problems with carbs, I can't really see any issues there.

<edit> Might I add we are only talking 10% ethanol blend here.

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1964 Morris 850, 1330 Supercharged - 81.8hp atws.
1975 Leyland Mini S 1100S powered - Nice and reliable.
1977 Leyland Mini LS - Project LS-T

you don't want to notice any pinging at all... so just retard your distributor a little bit, turn it anti-clockwise a couple of millimeters and it should clear.

You might like to mark the current position first - I like marking it with a razor blade, gives an accurate mark that doesn't rub off or face

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did I tell you that I won a trophy?

Alcohol has less heat energy than petrol (3x less) so you can expect a bit less (10%/3 =3.33%) fuel economy. Good thing it's cheaper then...

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Yeh, I used to get just a little bit of pinging eg if I let the revs drop too low coming out of corner and gave it a lot of throttle, but today it seemed to rattle up nearly every hill - mind you it was a faint "tinny "ratlle (hard to descibe in words) as opposed to the normal louder rattle that I'm familiar with. As said, the "loud" rattle only occurs under "extreme" conditions, and lasts just a second or so. I know it shouldn't do it all, so some tuning required, but it just seemed more prevalent today with this "softer" rattle.
I wish I had a recording - it's hard to describe. Maybe it wasn't pinging at all, and just something rattling at certain vibration frequencies, but it was only obvious uphill.
I guess my main interest was whether or not the fuel was contributing to it.....
I'll have a fiddle (and with the car too..... ).
Peter.

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1969 Mini Cooper S MKII (1330)
1972 Honda 750/4 (his),1976 Honda 400/4 (hers)
1982 Honda CB1100RC (ours)

Their advertising claims "much improved economy"
I'd be inclined to believe your words dr before a petrol company's advertising men
Interesting......

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1969 Mini Cooper S MKII (1330)
1972 Honda 750/4 (his),1976 Honda 400/4 (hers)
1982 Honda CB1100RC (ours)

Crikey, 3 posts in a row.
Another thought - is an ethanol % fuel like this more inclined to vaporisation? I reckon it's only since using it, on a warm day, if the car is turned off for a few minutes, when turned back on the electric fuel pump kicks up a hell of a racket for a few seconds, as if it's pumping air, and then goes back to normal ticking. To me this sounds like a vapour lock in the pump. Of course the fuel pump is quite near the muffler, and I'm going to make up some sort of shield for it, but I wonder if the fuel also contributes to this?

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1969 Mini Cooper S MKII (1330)
1972 Honda 750/4 (his),1976 Honda 400/4 (hers)
1982 Honda CB1100RC (ours)

Let me put it this way- when running a bike engine on 100% methanol, the carby jets are 3x bigger in cross section.
(source- Tuning for Speed- Phil Irving).
OK they do get more power (C/R is 16:1 or so) but economy is out the window.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

I think the thing with the ethanol petrols is that the ethanol is being used to raise the octane and it results in a more efficient fuel.
It is not just a matter of getting petrol and adding 10% ethanol, it probably means that they can leave out the toluene and add the ethanol!
Most people I know that use E10 have noticed a slight increase in economy. (some have noticed a decrease )

ethanol has less energy than petrol, so like the doc says, it will decrease fuel economy by about 3% for E10.

octane rating does not indicate the energy content of fuel, rather the fuel's resistance to knocking/detonation
higher octane fuels are not more efficient unless they have additives which increase their energy content.
(Bp claims an increase in fuel economy for Ultimate)


pinging does sound like a faint rattle.

also check your air/fuel ratio because it could be running lean

i have tried using E10 and i could smell petrol fumes, so i stopped using it.

check this website
http://www.fcai.com.au/ethanol.php/2007 ... 00005.html

G'Day Peter,
You will need to richen your mixture slightly (3%) to make up for the ethanol. EFI cars don't have this bother as the computer automatically corrects the mixture, but with carbys, you should set them up for your preference and stick with it. There are no real savings with ethanol as you need more fuel to go the same distance......

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Over 1,000,000Km, but now my retirement restoration project

OK, thanks for all that. It seems to me that my suspicions are confirmed, and the fuel may well be the cause (or at least contributing to) of the pinging and the vaporisation in the pump.
Think I will change back to Ultimate, and see how she goes. Stuff the environment.......
Peter

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1969 Mini Cooper S MKII (1330)
1972 Honda 750/4 (his),1976 Honda 400/4 (hers)
1982 Honda CB1100RC (ours)

As for the environment, it takes more energy (including fossil fuel for harvesting the crop) to produce 1L of ethanol than the energy you get from it.

I'll use this stuff in Minis only when there is NO alternative.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

Not so much to do with pinging, performance or economy, but this so-called Enviro-fuel.
According to the Caltex Website: "Use of Ethanol may reduce some air pollutants but increases others, so there is probably no significant overall effect on air quality."

So, if you want to use 10% ethanol mix fuels to help "Save the Environment", forget it.

As Doc said it takes more energy to create the stuff than it's worth.

It looks like it is not worth using to increase economy, and the 10% blend seems to be the (debatable) limit on safe levels for use in older cars (ie: not specifically designed for Ethanol).

If you want to save money, then use 95RON fuel and tune the car accordingly - but realistically, use 98RON and tune the car for that, eleminate pinging, increase performance and economy (due to the additives as well) and pay less than 10% more(with todays' highly inflated prices).

There has been plenty of debate about on this forum about advantages and disadvantages of one brand against another, but I think find one you are happy with and try to stick with it - but always when you change the type of fuel you use on a regular basis (the occasional tank of something else doesn't seem to matter) tune the car accordingly.

These are simply my observations from the small amount of driving (sarcasm filter on) that I do in my Mini.

Cheers,
Watto.