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 Post subject: What would you do?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:07 pm
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Location: Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
As you may have surmised, my mini project took a break after the US economy tanked, and I had guests and travel for three months straight.

I'm back at it again, and I think that me and the missus have finally hatched a plan. As much as I hate to sell one, the '70 cooper s is being prepped for sale. I'll do the cosmetics, and advertise it until it sells, without taking too much of a beating on it.

Thanks in large part to Garry K, the '66 will remain in my stable. Since it's torn down, I'll do all the easy-to-access stuff, i.e. window rubbers, carpet, door cards, etc. Where I'm still really hung up is the body and paint. The body is in great condition overall, but has a bit of rust on the fender-to-A panel seam, and a bit in the front of the box section that runs above the right sill. What I considering is to do basic prep, and get a cheap paint job for now on the exterior only. Then do the full-meal-deal a few years down the road when time/money allow. But I just have a hard time putting it all back together and leaving the shell halfway. As an aside, it will be stored inside and not driven in the wet from this point forward. I have a local mini magician, but can't afford him right now. I really want to enjoy this car and not have it sitting on ramps torn down in the garage.

I need inspiration. I want to believe that I can do the body work (and have asked about this before here) but sooooo don't want to wreck a 43 year old piece of automotive history in the process. Is there a way to go "halfway" on this for the time being, and still have it look decent and be enjoyable, etc.? Or do I just have to bite the bullet and find a way?

If it were yours, what would you do?

Sorry, I know this is more of a psychological post than a technical one. I just wish I had unlimited funds and I'd be driving a concourse mini a just a few weeks!

talk soon,
bmc

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Ben McCafferty
Bainbridge Island, Washington, USA
1970 ex-police mk2 Cooper S


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:26 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:12 am
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Location: Northern NSW
What exactly does the body need , are we talking structural rust/damage or just dents , ripples and minor stuff ? What are your skills like for bodywork and what do you have access to as far as tools are concerned ? the main thing is to do what you are comfortable with/can afford and enjoy the car . I've seen way too many long term projects stall from people wanting to get it perfect and then not finishing them (and selling them for a pittance) . By all means do a reasonable job so it looks good , use it and have fun . If that means using a bit of body filler to smooth panels instead of having them properly beaten and you are aware that when you have the time/money/whatever to do it properly you will have to strip the filler out then that's what you do .

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:02 pm
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Location: werribee vic
I would still strip it back to bare metal, do a proper body clean and prep and Por-15 the shell inside and out , same with the sub-frames and trailing arms. Now you can get Por-15 in different colors and if its done properly has a good finish. It might not look original but it will last long enough till you can paint it the original color.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:38 pm 
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Location: Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
Quote:
What exactly does the body need , are we talking structural rust/damage or just dents , ripples and minor stuff ? What are your skills like for bodywork and what do you have access to as far as tools are concerned ?


Basically I have access to the mini guy for $35/hour, and he's willing to come to my house and teach/work/whatever. I have never done bodywork, but have pretty extensive training in woodworking, which involves a lot of the same eye/hand/brain stuff I suspect. I'm used to detail in other words.

I have one class in welding, and access to a couple of friends who are genius TIG welders, but not so much on cars.

The car needs patches on at least two holes, and then just minor stuff like surface rust, filler here and there, etc.

bmc

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Ben McCafferty
Bainbridge Island, Washington, USA
1970 ex-police mk2 Cooper S


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:40 pm 
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Location: Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
Quote:
I would still strip it back to bare metal, do a proper body clean and prep and Por-15 the shell inside and out , same with the sub-frames and trailing arms. Now you can get Por-15 in different colors and if its done properly has a good finish. It might not look original but it will last long enough till you can paint it the original color.


I can have it media blasted for around $800, and my thought is that I'd at least be able to see what I have to work with. I know of the rust mentioned in the first post, and some surface rust towards the rear, but that's about it. Exposing the whole car would be good in that sense, but also creates a lot of work that may not be necessary?

Rrrrgggghhhh. Too much thinking.

tx,
bmc

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Ben McCafferty
Bainbridge Island, Washington, USA
1970 ex-police mk2 Cooper S


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:43 pm 
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Location: Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
P.S. Are you saying to use POR15 for a topcoat for awhile, or just as a way to keep things in check until I get to the real paint job?
bmc

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Ben McCafferty
Bainbridge Island, Washington, USA
1970 ex-police mk2 Cooper S


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:33 pm
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Location: wollongong
what i have found doing my bare metal mini (DIY) is you spend alot of time on stripping, sanding etc to get everything right and especially if your new to it (like me) you come across things you just cant do or work out. you could spend the 800 for media blasting and although a little more expensive than DIY it is well worth it. you must value your time and effort to work out whether DIY or media blasting is the best option.

now back to the original question

do it once, do it properly :D

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1975 Leyland Mini: 1060cc - resto/ ex-hsc project.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 11:02 pm
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Location: werribee vic
Yes, Por-15 is done as a body/surface rust application AND it can have another application as the top coat- comes in gloss in different colors. Fantastic product, it does need careful preparation and is a very good way of preserving a good shell until the time comes to bring it back to the original color.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:59 pm 
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Can you post some pics of the rust in question so we can advise you a little better please.
I have to agree with Leighton when he says "do it once, do it properly" but if you've never done it before it can be very hard and daunting. The biggest thing is to stop the rust, don't worry about the cars appearance for now just get the shell tidy.
Are you wanting to get it on the road so you can enjoy driving it while you finish it off?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:07 pm
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Location: Bainbridge Island, WA, USA
Well, good news (I think). I went to get the requested photos, and went ahead and removed the old water-stained headlining. I wasn't sure what I'd find. Underneath--original red primer, original New British Racing Green paint, original soundproofing and glue overspray. It settles the question of "is this the original shell?" once and for all.

I was also pleasantly surprised by what I found today. While there is a bit of rust to contend with, none of it is serious and the lingering questions I had have mostly been resolved. I went after the rust aggressively with a sharp blade, to really see how much metal was left, etc. Since I have petrol tanks out, headlining out, etc., I am able to access the opposite side of much of the questionable sections, and the news there was really good overall.

Photos to follow, but here's the summary:

The Good--
--a, b, c pillars are totally smooth inside, not a bit of rust anywhere. The bubbles in the rain gutters (on the roof) are surface only
--the sills are dead solid and perfect also, as are the doors and skins
--the car overall is very solid and rust-free

The Bad--
--Perforations in the front left floor pan corner, rear seat bulkhead directly forward of the battery, right fender, upper right a-panel, lower right a-panel
--Surface rust on rear body seams (this is actually good news, but something to be dealt with)
--Nose panel had surface rust covered over with bondo, so panel must be replaced or covered with bondo again
--Flange covers front and rear show some swelling, but all rust is coming from the outside in--the inside seams are dry and clean
--When I removed the ball of bondo behind the front wheel, it is covering a hole of rust that is in the a-panel box section. The sill just behind this is totally solid, but it leaves a question mark on whether there is some rust on the inside of the sill on the right

The Ugly--
--None really, except perhaps the nose panel already mentioned. It's the wrong nose panel anyway, so perhaps not such a big deal. Just replace it and move on

Photos--
Here's the left front floorpan, with two perforations:
Image
This is the front right a-panel, with bondo filling a hole at the lower:
Image
Here is the same location, with the bondo removed:
Image
This is that same panel, with the hole at the top:
Image
And here is the hole in the right front fender--it is the same location as the previous photo--this area was packed with mud/dirt, and I'm sure it rusted through the a-panel and the fender, and then water collected in the lower a-panel and rusted the lower hole after that. The left side has no holes in these locations:
Image
It's hard to see, but this is the hole in the rear seat bulkhead. It is at the bottom, and I can insert a knife blade under the bulkhead, but that's about it. I'm sure this is from acid:
Image
Here's the rear seam with surface rust. The bubbling is only on the outside--the inner seams are dry and flat, no rust at all. The battery box is of course trashed, and will be replaced. The other side is the same as this one:
Image
That's it for the rust. Here's a money shot, just for kicks, of the right front inside roof. You can see primer overspray, New British Racing Green overspray, and glue overspray, along with the soundproofing. The headliner had 3" waterstain all the way around its bottom edge, so I was really concerned I'd find rust under it. Not a single bit:
Image

OK, hit me with your opinions. I am mostly very encouraged by the news today, but let me know what of these jobs seem really hard; which ones are well within reach, etc. As I tear it down more and more, I can't help but think about how much of a pain in the butt it is to get this far down, and don't want to have to re-do everything again in a few years. So I hope to make it a solid daily driver instead of just doing the minimum, even if that means I have to go a bit slower to finance the project.

Thanks as always for the help and advice!
bmc

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Ben McCafferty
Bainbridge Island, Washington, USA
1970 ex-police mk2 Cooper S


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:31 pm
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Location: Brisbane
Don't despair just yet and as others have said, try and do it right the first time. I have just got my shell back this week but as yet have not been able to work on it or get any pics posted. I know if I were to have another soda blasted I would be removing the sills beforehand and any large sections of panels that show any signs of rust. The amount of soda that has collected in the sills, the rear bins and in between the inner and outer gaurds is horrendus. Even so, it has been well worth the $500 it cost to have it sripped and primed. Just got lots of small holes to both weld and lead wipe and once that is done we can move onto the filler putty and smoothing before painting the interior, boot and engine bay so I can put the hydro, brake and fuel lines back followed by the rebuilt subframes and wiring harnes and an engine. Then it is off to the professional spraypainters for the outside coat. Just hope my daughter appreciates the finished product.

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