That is FREAKING AWESOME!!!

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Chong if this is right, next time I'll run a 4.26 diff in my 1360 and blow you all away.
Rolling roads do have lots of variables- sticky tyres, pressure, tie down tension etc but,
it's not quite this simple..... rolling roads do not just measure roller torque... HP = torque x rpm/constant.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

The big difference between the KAD and S/charged is the cost.

On rolling dynos I have seen so many variables that you would NEVER get a true picture. They are for people who can't get their car on a track and do the tuning under real conditions. That's the only way you can sort them out. Years ago we never did a tune-up on a dyno and said it's perfect and then went racing. With the Formula 5000's and sports cars all the tune-up was done on the track.

Little things like air intake position can make a big difference on a cars overall performance. Just work out the air pressure on a 2" opening at 60mph. more than a lot of super chargers sucking thru a carby will produce.

_________________
Research is the difference between speculation and investment. Anyone who copys some one else will always be second
www.minisprintgt.com

David,,, i`m sooo glad you add to these threads,,, it`s a breath of fresh air to listen/read someone who actually knows what they`re taking about

& again,,, i`m not knocking "any" dyno, whether it be an engine dyno or a rolling road dyno,,, just that if you use one (which-ever type) to get an idea of performance , or if you use one to tune your engine,,, then stick to the same one for any """"attempt""" at comparing things.

I do all my own tune work from the seat of my pants, my ears, my nose, my eyes, my feel.

& yeah, that`s left me wide open for a whole pile of jokes right? common then lets have em

I typed in the 1170cc turbo twinky thread that i do use the dyno just down the road, but i only use them if a customer wants a piece of paper with a pretty graph on it showing what it`s got,,, to run them up for a figure to give to the customer & only if they ask for one ... that`s all... & i also typed that i don`t get them to do any tune work for me.

One mini that we ran up on the rollers,(my own in fact) Chris did try to have a play with the tune, but he only went backwards & it all went straight back to where i had it.... That same "road" mini was run up on G&A`s rolling road dyno at sumner pk & they guys there tried to tell me that it had 100hp at the wheels,,,, i argued the point & they tried to defend themselves by saying "Mate you won`t get much more than that,,, it`s got heaps more than any other mini wev`e tested" ,,, My point was that surely it couldn`t possibly have that much & that i believe it only had about 85, maybe 90 max,,, suddenly they relaxed & were obviously relieved for the fact that i`m not the average dikk pretending that my mini had bundles more than what they said,,, the typical pub bragging rights idiot only wants a graph showing way more than what the car actually has... or can use.

& David,,, it`s these real life situations that i`ve been trying to get across to everyone that make the dynos basically "Un-true" when it comes down to the usable power to the ground,,, & things like what you said about the air intake position etc,,, well ,,, mate you know as well as i do that there is a whole pile of variables that make things a totally different world from a dyno & back to the race track or even the normal city streets.

That is the point i`ve been trying to get across for quite a few years ( & with quite a few message board forums i might add) obviously getting crap put on me about it the whole time i`m getting used to it tho

& yet another perfect example is my V8 kombi,,,, it has bags of traction & bags of grunt but weighs 1800kgs,,, Now """IF""" it holds it`s gearbox & CV joints together i can drag off some very impressive cars, but a dam good little mini would whip it just about anywhere with way way less grip & way way less grunt,,, (Power to weight ratio differences) However,,, put it on the dyno at the muster last year it only showed 175hp but that was with only a tad over 2/3rds throttle & it was in a .7:1 overdriven top gear,,,, with only 25lbs air in the back tyres & the straps "CRANKED" down sooo dam tight cause it was getting so much grip on the rollers that it was bellowing out the side walls of the tyres & trying to climb off the dam things.... now more recently we have sorted the throttle problem,,, pumped up the tyres,,, run it in (the almost 1:1) 3rd gear & gained 20hp

same car , same engine, & only a couple of silly things changed.

now that we might have a gearbox that "Might" be strong enough (after $11,000 spent on the box & diff) we might bung the 2 hair driers onto it & have another play

But still,,, my point here is that it`s all good & well having heaps of grunt,,, but the trick with the "Package" is to get it all to the ground & make it work all the way through the revs & have the gear ratios sorted to suit & & & & & (& hope that nothing breaks)

Then we have a real life dyno,,, """The black stuff"""

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

to compare them vs any other mini on any other day and different dyno is silly and isnt the point anyway

i would love to see a 1/4 mile drag race, though the close ratio dog box, lsd and lightweight aerodynamic body should ensure victory for the sprint.

on the track theres no doubt the sprint would win, KAD brakes and suspension, LSD etc.

i believe the sprint to be the best mini in australia.

So your car with 11psi of boost made 102.9 hp ...
what would of it made with no boost ???????
all you have really hilighted is how well the twincams really work

And aside from that Craigs car isn't built for numbers on a dyno it's built to be reliable on a weeks worth of Targa Tassy..

Also with 102.9 hp what was your time around mallala

Because with only 48 hp ( tested on the same day as these other two )
i can get 1.35.6...

_________________
I am the son of the STIG

HOTBRICKS
http://hotbricks.org.au/

'65 NCF MINI.....
'69 MINIMATIC.... 9 year resto still on the go

Quite often when tuning a car the simple things are overlooked. A classic example of this was in the early 70's when I was involved in Formula 5000 eng constuction with some of Garrie Coopers cars. The ram tube intakes all pointed up behind the driver, then some one suggested a big air intake above the driver and pointing forward. Made an extra 20 plus Hp.
The air was forced into eng instead of creating a low pressure across ram tube throats.
A simple thing like this is NOT going to give any benifit on a dyno, but a big plus on the track.
As Matt said ,use you senses to see what is happening and look at the dynamics of what you are tuning

_________________
Research is the difference between speculation and investment. Anyone who copys some one else will always be second
www.minisprintgt.com

maybe 60hp as it made 55 as a 1310.

no need to defend the sprint, it is an awesome machine.
give some credit to my 5 port though for getting right up there with it!

thanks alot for helping me get through scrutineering and with the many problems i had at mallala, and i look forward to going out there again with you guys this year with a sorted car this time

It's not about comparing heads or cams or whatever you want. It's just about the whole package. Craig spent his money, Ryan spent his and they both got awesome engine packages. I know I'd rather have the twincam because it not only sounds better but it's insane for a N/A motor. But the supercharger is a very affordable way of achieving similiar performance.

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1964 Morris 850, 1330 Supercharged - 81.8hp atws.
1975 Leyland Mini S 1100S powered - Nice and reliable.
1977 Leyland Mini LS - Project LS-T

So Super-mini and slinkey what did you chargerkits cost??? and if you could have done a twincam for the money would have you

_________________
I am the son of the STIG

HOTBRICKS
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'65 NCF MINI.....
'69 MINIMATIC.... 9 year resto still on the go

I'm not entirely sure of my cost but kit was $850, 'charger was $300, HIF44 cost around $200 after a lot of messing around but I do have 2 spare so that's ok. $50 for air filters, $40 ram tube, rubber pipe, tuning and possibly other little costs. In total, maybe around the 2 grand mark, maybe less.

Remember though, mine did not make as much power as Super-mini's. He's got an RE13T and they cost about $130, decompression plate, bigger pistons and a smaller boost pulley.

If I had the money to go KAD twin cam, I wouldn't. I'd go 4E-FTE and that is exactly what I am doing. I think a BMW twinny would be a lot cheaper, around the cost of supercharging, maybe but then I'd still go supercharged I think just simply for the bolt on nature of it. So if twin cam setups cost the same as a supercharger kit, I think I'd still lean towards supercharger.

But with money aside, still 4E-FTE for me, maybe a B18 Honda Mini but that's probably a bit excessive and unfortunately no turbo.

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1964 Morris 850, 1330 Supercharged - 81.8hp atws.
1975 Leyland Mini S 1100S powered - Nice and reliable.
1977 Leyland Mini LS - Project LS-T

kit $850
charger $175 inc/postage
HS6 $0
k&n filter and ramtube $?
dyno tune including recurve dizzy $500 (ouch)
retune somewhere else due to poor dyno tune $85

there were many other costs in my engine build to get comp down and to increase reliability, but you can essentially put the kit on and the only other costs are the charger, carb and tune.

i've never had a twin cam so i dont know what would be better,
but it wasnt an option for me at the time due to cost, and my whole mini has been built on a budget because i am quite impoverished
i suspect the charger setup would still be cheaper?

with the current price of a 16v head conversion though i would definitely consider it as its difficult to get a boosted mini running perfect through a carb and injection is not really an option with a 5 port head.

obviously do an intercooled turbo injected 16v twinky and you're set.

Slinkey,,, your pricing is pretty good,,, & your explanation is also very good & well written,,, & i agree with a lot of what you`re saying,,, well done

But,,, what a lot of people fail to realise/understand with all this lot, is that the money side of things really depends on how far you want to go,,, How much Bling do you want...how hard you want it to go,,, how long you want it to last,,, what you`re doing with the car... amongst many other things

& i`m not talking about you slinkey,,, you`ve explained things quite clear as to what you like/want & where you stand & i agree with your train of thought for what you`re after.

But many others may not totally understand that Just about anyone can make a fast mini engine with very little money,,,, But it`s all the hardware inside & the cost of all that "strong" stuff that is important with respects to longetivety,,, how long it lasts.

There is way more to the equation than just that tho,,, is it drivable? ,,, does it putter around the road nice & smooth but perform like a cut snake if/when you want it to etc etc etc

Not everyone wants an incredibly fast mini,,, but i can assure you that "EVERY ONE" (fast or slow) wants it to last

so,,, with the toyota starlet,,, well it`s a dam good package for strength & longetivity, driveabilty, smoothness etc etc etc ,,,, but suffers in the subframe manufacturing costs,,, handling issues need to be addressed,,, axles & brake upgrades needed,,, wiring & gearshift sorting,,,,major body mods to make it all fit & happen, Dtp of Transport Engineering Certification required,,, etc etc etc... definately not an easy or cheap task all up

Weigh in the supercharger set up & you have a winner,,, but then """IF""" you`re after great big balls of power,,, then you`re into the "possibility" of it failing somewhere inside,,, "Unless" you spend heaps of money on heaps of strong goodies & machining & engine building for reliabiliity on all the iunside bits,,, & even then it can still stress out & go bang

same with any of the twin cams really,,, no difference there,,, things can still go bang even if you throw big chunks of money at the right items inside the things

There`s an old saying that rings true here tho,,, --->
"You get nothing for nothing"
or "you get what you pay for"

Now please don`t get me wrong here cause i`ll crack the sh!t s again,,, I`m not pushing my twinky kits, i`ve already sold out of the first batch What i am saying is that there is a "Type" of driving that we all want & that "Type" differs between us all,,, i like to own a few cars & use them for differing purposes, one for the bitument circuits, one for hillclimbs/autocross... one for the speedway.... & a couple for the road,,, but i like them all fast right??? (not everyone does) But i like all mine to be user friendly for each of their specific purposes & it just so happenes that the twin cams are a dam good allrounder in nearly all departments

they`re smooth & quiet,,, they don`t cost a fortune (in comparison to the other major twin cam heads avaliable) they`re "VERY" driver friendly with quite broad power spreads & are happy to putter around town, low in the revs in top gear, but also just as happy to spin really hard too,,, they`re VERY strong, they`re very little maintenance once built,,, & they`re is virtually no body mods & no Dept of Transport certification required

& if you don`t want to make one scream,,, then leave the head & cams std-ish & enjoy a lovely, smooth, drivable, powerful, reliable, economical, & comfortable mini ,,, yet still zoom away from the average hotty road mini when ever you feel the need while you`re at it & at the same time have something different under the bonnet

& yes we have a supercharged spoeedway mini & i`ve built & played with quite a few others & love them too,,, there`s a place for everyone

Horses for courses remember???

Just that the twinky horse is the same one that just about every single car , bike & engine manufaturer has jumped onto for the last 20 odd years,,, leaving the mini behind,,, well not any more This horse is one of the most "Efficient" horses avaliable

The "BIG" money on super special cranks & rods & pistons etc etc etc,,, like in Craigs car for example , is meant to help save an engine failure,,, all those goodies don`t necessarilly make it any faster,,, but make it survive with all the other rather expensive fast bits on board.

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

kit $850
charger $175 inc/postage
HS6 $0
k&n filter and ramtube $?
dyno tune including recurve dizzy $500 (ouch)
retune somewhere else due to poor dyno tune $85
quote]

plus the full cost of that motor build ????

O.k my kit was $1250 (from memory Its late memory bad )
head $400 8 valve
im running the injection fuel only already have a computer
I still need to buy extractors $450 i think from Matt you pay the same if not more for mini extractors yes? so wheather we can count this or not as it is a cost that i still would have had to pay ..
mods to the top of the block and head will be around $1000 ( mine won't be have a very nice friend who is machining it very cheaply ..Thankyou Robane Design )
so from my point of view for around $3000 i can have a nice running twin cam 8 port fuel injected mini and that WILL take into count balancing hot tanking , new GR pistons .. and hey depends how i feel might get some port work done to the Twinky head...


Beanie

_________________
I am the son of the STIG

HOTBRICKS
http://hotbricks.org.au/

'65 NCF MINI.....
'69 MINIMATIC.... 9 year resto still on the go