Ausmini
It is currently Fri Aug 01, 2025 10:09 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:28 am 
Offline
848cc
848cc
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Newcastle, NSW
sports850: If you've got some photos handy that would be fantastic. The seats are mounted as you described although it doesn't seem particually safe.

Thanks to everyone helping me out on this :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:44 am 
Offline
Postally Verbose
Postally Verbose
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:12 am
Posts: 19595
Location: Northern NSW
These photo's are of Tom's (minivanman) mini van which is currently holidaying at my place but is the same as an 850 sedan though the seats have a forwards/backwards adjuster that 850 seats didn't have . They are still the same seat type though and are mounted the same as 850 seats .

Seat in the down position , brackets visible in the front .

Image

Seat brackets on the cross member , this cross member has been repaired so there are some extra welds visible that yours won't have , nothing to worry about .

Image

Seat tilted forward showing how it hinges forwards on the front brackets and has no attachments to hold the rear down .

Image

What are the back of your seats like , do they have a similar sized area of the frame they sit on the floor with (to the originals) or just a post at each corner . So long as they mount to the original mounts and have a similar sized pad at the rear (though a larger one would transfer the weight better) you should be right according to the rules from the RTA in my other post .

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:21 am 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2004 6:31 pm
Posts: 4663
Location: Sydney - strangely, I am glad of the sight of hills!!
Hey qcard

1275 in your 850/998/1098 is not a major modification in NSW and does not require an engineers certificate.

This is my professional conclusion after reading the RTA guidelines. Anyone who tells you otherwise is just misinformed, unprofessional, incompetent, trying to rip you off or all of the above. I am sick of the misinformation and silly conclusions being reached by people who should know better.

Read this post, and all the links and take the information to the blueslip guy and the engineer. Highlight the bits in the RTA guidelines that we talk about in the post. You should be fine.

http://www.ausmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23849&highlight=mdu

If the seats are mounted using 3mm reinforcing plate minimum 150mm around the holes where they bolt to the floor they should be OK (using the guidance in the CAMS manual for reinforcement considered sufficient). Having a catch that allows the seat to still tilt forward is a bit more complicated and the engineer should be able to recommend what he will certify.

cheers
michael

_________________
the world is a book, and those who do not travel read only a page
66 Mini Minor sponsored by http://www.lifeonthehedge.com.au/ The Dog Harness Specialists
It was a pleasure ausmini. I'll miss all you misfits and reprobates ;-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: 1275
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:24 am 
Offline
848cc
848cc
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 6:22 pm
Posts: 221
Location: The Gong
Hey qcard,

I went through the same thing, I was told with my '62 Mini that I would need an engineering certificate.
If I recall correctly the exact words he used was "The guy at the RTA told me that I could not register this car because the 1275 was never put in any '62 mini.
Also, if you go to the nrma website and do an online quote, you can't actually find a 62 mini with a 1275 engine size. The biggest option is 1100.
I have a feeling this is just going to be an interpretation of the rta guidelines. I believe there is a percentage engine capacity increase allowed without an engineers certificate, so if you had an 1100 before you may be able to argue your case to the RTA thats just over 10% - in the end its there decision to allow you to register it. If you previously had an 850, the percentage increase is almost 50%. Again, not sure on the guidelines, but if the RTA says get stuffed, then you're just going to have to go back and get another certificate.
Good luck.


Cheers
Jonesy

_________________
Michael Jones
Minis In The Gong
[email protected]
www.minisinthegong.com.au


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:53 am 
Offline
Postally Verbose
Postally Verbose
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:12 am
Posts: 19595
Location: Northern NSW
In an absolute extreme letter of the law type case the most you would have to do is show to an engineer that you have the entire package identical to how it was in the cooper s which had the identical body . That is to say motor , transmission , suspension and brakes . Since transmission is the same type using essentially the same mounts and suspension is the same (S's had rubber cone and hydro) the only other difference is brakes . That being said though they may insist you have a brake booster as well if you don't already have one fitted but otherwise there is no problem . The same as all the vans getting about with 1275's while they were never officially released with them by the factory (I believe there were a couple done as special orders though) .

Don't mean to dispute the trouble you had getting yours passed Jonesy but it seems you had a mechanic or RTA person who had an odd view of things .

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:39 pm 
Offline
848cc
848cc
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Thanks for all the responses. Here's what the engineer had to say:
Quote:
As I suggested the other day, there is no need for an engineering certificate for the engine or brakes, provided that the brakes are a factory configuration.

Odd as it might sound, the remote booster is a grey area in the rules. If I recall correctly, the disc brake mini didn't have a brake booster. The remote booster should theoretically require a certificate, but the RTA have never really been interested in requiring one where the single circuit brakes are otherwise a "standard" configuration, so it's not really an issue.

The engine and brakes would be mentioned on an engineering certificate even though they didn't need to be certified. In effect, you would only be paying for the certification of the seats.

Even though the vehicle pre-dates the ADRs, it does have to be certified for modified seats.

If you were to use original seat bases under the seats that are now fitted, and the seats were securely adapted to those bases, it would fall into a grey area in the rules such that they could be deemed to comply with the requirements. If you fit new seat bases, even if they were similar to the original ones, they would arguably have to comply with the current requirements and be secured at the back.


That (hopefully) sorts out the engine issues, I'm still undecided about what to do about the seats. I'd feel more comfortable making the anchor points safer, but it's all time and money...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:28 pm 
Offline
Postally Verbose
Postally Verbose
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:12 am
Posts: 19595
Location: Northern NSW
Just to clarify the cooper s with 1275 and 7 1/2" discs did have a brake booster but the 1275 LS with 8.4" discs didn't . He could be thinking of the later version .

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:53 pm 
Offline
848cc
848cc

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:32 am
Posts: 449
Location: Canberra ACT
Cooper with 7" discs didn't have booster.

As for seats; either (a) borrow a set of early seats (there should be dozens around but of course condition may be an issue :) (b) get some late model clubby versions. They have a simple "loop" that you can bolt to the floor.

Stick those in for your inspection.... then go home and fit whatever you want. No one will ever question you.

Cheers, Ian


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:11 am 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 5370
Location: Yandina,Sunshine Coast,QLD
My 63 850 has a mod plate for the engine and rear seat belts. The 1275 and discs were but on the plate because we were airing on the side of caution (I wasn't charged any extra :wink: ) The engineer interrupted the law as a standard factory option and seeing as the 850 didn't come with the factory option of an A+1275 engine we plated it :) .

_________________
Respect mine and I'll respect yours.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:25 pm 
Offline
848cc
848cc
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:47 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Newcastle, NSW
I have another question now :)

Did my 1963, 850 come with seatbelt anchor points? (even if no seatbelts were fitted)

There are anchor points in the door pillar, and I'm trying to work out if they're factory installed. If they are I won't need a certificate for them.

Cheers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:38 pm 
Offline
1360cc
1360cc
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:23 am
Posts: 7339
Location: Sunny Shine Coast, Qld Australia
My 63 850 has factory installed anchor points in the pillars - but mine was a UK kit car - My original Mini in 66 was a 64 850 and I presume Australian built and it didn't have anchor points and I had to install my own ( no engineer cert required back then :roll: )

_________________
David L
Image

My greatest fear in life is that when I die my wife will sell my Mini and tools for the price I told her I paid for them!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:00 pm 
Offline
Yay For Hay!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:27 pm
Posts: 15912
Location: Wodonga - Vic/NSW border
qcard wrote:
I have another question now :)

Did my 1963, 850 come with seatbelt anchor points? (even if no seatbelts were fitted)

There are anchor points in the door pillar, and I'm trying to work out if they're factory installed. If they are I won't need a certificate for them.

Cheers


give us a photo of them, should be easy to tell if they're originals or not

_________________
did I tell you that I won a trophy?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:08 pm 
Offline
Postally Verbose
Postally Verbose
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:12 am
Posts: 19595
Location: Northern NSW
If they are a threaded insert welded into the door pillar from the inside they are the factory ones , non factory ones at the time were normally (but not always , have seen them welded inside as well but remember they were a near new car and people didn't like dealers cutting and welding their car) a longer bolt through from the outside of the door pillar with a spacer inside . There would be no rear seatbelt mounts at all as they didn't come in until later . As Simon has said though , a photo will tell all .

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:13 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:33 pm
Posts: 2213
Location: Darling Downs QLD
I Have an 'Aussie' 63 850 shell, which has factory seat belt anchor points. These were all still CKD in '63 I think, so it was probably a factory option. I also have factory heater brackets spot welded to the front bulkhead, and carpet retaining clips. Must have been a 'super-deluxe' shell with a higher level of trim?????

(Now a 64 cooper s replica group Nb :D :D )

Cheers

Matt

_________________
68 Deluxe.... it's shiny..... I like shiny!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:46 pm 
Offline
1275cc
1275cc

Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:38 pm
Posts: 2210
Location: Huon Valley, TAS
Hey Qcard, what part of newcastle are you from?

I'm currently rebuilding a clubby so if you need to borrow my seats they would be available.

Dicko


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 82 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  

© 2016 Ausmini. All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.