Remove the pig tail inside, it won't be needed even if you return to the points. You can remove one of the black wires at a time to see if everything still works, but you might want to chase them out and see where they go as well. I could see one being used for a tacho, but the second would have either gone to the old dizzy points, or might be a immobilizing switch somewhere...it might be worth finding out what it does.

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

What does it mean when you let the smoke out..?

Where's Morris1100, isn't he the one who stocks that N.O.S. Lucas smoke..?

The blue transistor is now mostly black... I've just checked everything - it's negative earth, the red wire went to the positive, I made a connector so that both wires originally going to the negative are still going there, and the transistor wire is going there, too... I really don't know what's wrong. I'm pretty confident I haven't swapped around the dizzy cap (got it 180º out)... Anyone have any ideas as to what I could've done wrong..?

Ok... Had some time away from the computer, away from the Mini, away from the problem... And I'm now thinking that perhaps the instruction sheet is wrong? The third last point on it is:

Now, when I installed this, I didn't think about how things worked, I just followed the instructions. But, when I though about what it looked like - basically identical to the first photo from YoungMiniac here, the original setup didn't connect to both the Coil's terminals. The circuit was a wire from the Coil's Positive terminal, through the points, to the Condenser, to the Dizzy's body - to Earth. With power coming from one of the two wires connected to the Negative terminal (originating from the Positive pole of the battery) providing the input power, and the Positive terminal eventually heading to ground (which is negative)..?

So... Why would the replacement switch/capacitor (Condenser) do anything different..? Wouldn't connecting both ends of the wire just create a short circuit across the Coil, thereby frying the Electronic Ignition module..? Am I right..?

I Googled Mini +Electronic +Ignition +schematic +45D, and I found this link. I think it agrees with what I'm saying..? Any opinions..?

haven't used this one specifically, but the electronic module will require a permanent 12v supply to it, hence the wire to the +'ve side of the coil

picture it as identical to the points setup, but it has a +'ve supply for the electronics

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did I tell you that I won a trophy?

The coil is a transformer. It has a primary side (12 volts) and a secondary side (10k volts +).

Now transformers don't work on DC, they need a change in voltage to create an output. The role of the points is to create that change in voltage by switching the 12 volts on and off. The dc switching on and off is like a brutal square wave equivalent of a sine wave, but it does exactly the same thing.We also time the point at which this change in voltage occurs to provide the spark at the best possible moment in the ignition cycle.

So the -ve side of the coil simply connects to ground through the points.

The role of the condensor is to soak up any large voltage spike which will try to jump the points gap as they open. Without it you might only get a few dozen miles before the points dissolve to nothing.

It's not a short circuit, it's actually a large capacitor.


Hook your points up as they should be, they need a +12 volt feed operate, and they need the -ve coil terminal so they can switch the coil to ground. Take the center lead off the dizzy and see if you get a spark as you turn the engine over. If you don't then the unit has fried.

If you feel adventurous, take a dremel to the plastic and dig out that transistor, you should be able to replace it from Jaycar or RS components.

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

hey Mick, here's a good one for you - my guru has a Suzuki race bike in his workshop, the owner can't get hold of a coil to suit it. The engine management computer puts out an AC signal to the coil

it's ex superbike series, dunno when, but it was the spare bike for some famous racer - there's a poster of the other bike up on the workshop office door, opposite side of the door to the Wurth calendar

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did I tell you that I won a trophy?

Ok... So... I've got two wires, the installation guide's saying to connect them one to each side of the coil. Is this how you guys would read the quote I've got above..?

Given I've got two wires, one of them (the Red one) significantly longer than the other... I'm pretty confident that longer wire - like the original points wire - goes to the Positive Terminal on the Coil. From what you're saying (especially what Mick's saying), the shorter cable should just Earth - not go to the Coil. Which is basically the same as where the wires on the points went. I'll try it that way (Red to +Coil, Black to Block/Body) in the morning...

It's just frustrating when you follow the instructions to your best understanding of them, and you find yourself looking at needing another kit. If my current understanding is correct, it shouldn't say "BLACK TO NEGATIVE" - it should say "BLACK TO EARTH." It's a shame you can't just buy the capacitor, transistor and some bonding agent and do it yourself... I'm guessing I could probably buy three of them (so that I could wreck another two) for the price (which I'm not saying is high - it's not) of buying another full kit.

As far as I've seen with any of these electronic igniton modules the 'Black to Negative' wire will need to go to the coil, not the body/earth.

As Mick has already said - The +ve is to run the electronic side of the electronic ignition. The -ve side is the 'switched' side which 'triggers' the coil to create a spark.

You'll probably find they made the lead shorter as most dizzy's plug into an inline connector from the -ve side of the coil.

I believe they have followed the colours of the original (Pertronix ignitor)- the red goes to + on the coil and the black to - on the coil.
Note most of these things (some Pertronix excepted) suit negative earth ONLY.

I ran a Pertronix for years in a 45D and it was fine- just don't park it with ignition on...

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

The points wire on a negative earth car normally goes to the -ve side of the coil. The points are basically a switch that opens and closes the circuit to allow the coil to work. Are you sure your points went to the +ve side of the coil?

tadhg - is your car still positive earth???

which side of your battery is connected to earth in the boot +'ve or -'ve?

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did I tell you that I won a trophy?

Yeah, D1ck0, absolutely certain they went to the positive side of the coil. And Simon, I've checked the boot a heap of times, the negative pole of the battery is at the rear, and it is connected to the body.

Now... Here's a different thought... The coil's just a transformer. From my rusty memory of high school, a transformer didn't necessarily have to have positive and negative sides. It just needed current in and current out. Would having these connections the wrong way round destroy anything..? If I look at the Pertronix installation manual (Page 2), it shows that the wire from the ignition is to go to the Coil's Positive Terminal. And the only thing off the Negative Terminal is the Ignitor wire. Well, despite my car being negative earth, there is only one wire on the Positive Terminal, and that's from the Dizzy. There are two existing wires to the Negative Terminal (which means they'd be wired the wrong way round?), neither of which went to the dizzy (ground), and the Positive Terminal had only the Dizzy connected to it.

So, will switching the connections on the Coil (so that the Ignition connects to positive) destroy the Coil..? I'm guessing I've already basically destroyed the ignition module, and I'm loathe to destroy a Coil too. But what's there - negative earth battery arrangement, but power feeding from the key to the negative terminal, and positive formerly connecting to earth - is already the opposite to what is normally done.

If I do switch the connections - so that the power/key goes to the Positive Terminal, then the rest of the connections should, in theory, look more like what's shown on the Pertronix diagram. With the Red Wire going to the Positive Terminal, along with power from the key, and the Black Wire going to the Negative (and I'm guessing grounding through the dizzy body..? Through the ignition module's baseplate..? Not that it's important).

I'm only asking this bit because, looking at the Pertronix diagrams, the battery in my car, and the current arrangement at the coil, it looks like what was there was connected wrongly to the coil... If that's the case, I was always doomed to failure. But if it's the case, I'm wondering if it's theoretically possible for the car to have fired and run. And run nicely at that.

Thanks for continuing to help me out here. Lots of confused, patient pondering going on here... Last night it was more panicked pondering.

The two wires certainly were supposed to connect up to either side of the coil, make no mistake on this. Simply, the +ve was a handy place to find 12 volts to make the module work, and the -ve coil connection was the wire that was connected/disconnected/connected/disconnected etc.. etc.. as the rotor turned around and around and around...


I've got a spare module here. You are welcome to have a second crack with it if this one has failed. If it works, just replace it in your own time.

Mick

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

Tadhg,
I think you may have it! As far as I understand, the coil will work with points even if wired up backasswards. So your coil may have been wired wrong before, swap it back and see!

None of this will help if ( ) you have fried the transistor though, I hope it all works out!

Oh and I love that link, great to explain to people who haven't spent 20 years working it all out!

Graham

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