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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:15 am 
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This came up on another forum, but it scary enough to warrant posting here.

This is the story of a guy welding, a small puff of smoke and near-death, so it's worth reading. It is, however, quite sobering. Although the circumstances leading to this particular event are kind of rare, its consequences are so severe as to warrant this post, I believe.

Mods: feel free to move this to wherever you think is appropriate.

Quote:
Common Cleaners Can Turn into Poison Gas

Yep, I thought I was a goner this time. How simple it was to get into trouble.

After seeing and reading so many warning labels, we tend to no longer pay them any heed. We buy chemicals and sprays at a local parts house and think "How can this be so bad, health-wise, if I'm buying it over the counter?" Here's how a small whiff of smoke almost dropped me where I stood.

I had a rush job to do, welding four diesel tanks. I had to patch where they were pitted by road salt corrosion.

Normally I spray a little carb cleaner on the spot I'm going to weld, wipe it off, then preheat the area with an acetylene torch to get rid of any solvents. Where I normally get carb cleaner was sold out, so I got a can of brake cleaner and went through my regular routine. To be on the safe side, I even had the shop door open and the exhaust fan on.

I started TIG welding on Thursday afternoon and had no problem at first. But when I started welding across a really pitted area, I found a couple of drops of carb cleaner that were lurking in a deep dimple. As I came close to the cleaner, a small puff of white smoke popped up, and I almost passed out. I made it outside and sat for a while in the fresh air.

After about 10 minutes, I went to the office and sat at the computer to check the warnings on the brake cleaner can I used. That's when my whole left side started shaking for about 10 to 15 minutes. (I found out later I was having a seizure).

When I was able to control myself again, I read the can's warning: "Vapours may decompose to harmful or fatal corrosive gases such as hydrogen chloride and possibly phosgene." After reading about hydrogen chloride, I started researching phosgene. The active chemical in brake cleaner is tetrachloroethylene. When this chemical is exposed to excessive heat and the gas argon, which is used in MIG and TIG welding, it produces phosgene. Phosgene gas can be fatal with a dose as little as four parts per million: basically a single small puff of smoke. Symptoms can be delated from six to 48 hours after exposure. There is no antidote to phosgene poisoning. If you do survive, the long-term effects can be chronic bronchitis and emphysema.

My breathing still was hard a few hours later, but I felt a little better, so I didn't go to hospital. The chlorine taste and smell in my nose and mouth were still strong. About midnight, I started coughing and my chest started hurting but I thought this would pass after a night's sleep. The next day (Friday), the symptoms got worse and my kidneys started hurting, so I drank a bunch of liquids and cranberry juice. For the next four days, I was constipated and only urinated a lot of clear fluid with no smell. Though sometimes I felt okay, I was really in a lot of paint on and off for the next several days, as well as weak and tired. Then my urine became very dark and smelt terrible.

By the next Monday, nine days after the poisoning, I lost all balance. I was confused and could hardly talk, so I finally went to the emergency room. My symptoms were low O2 level, sugar levels out of control, vertigo and I was hurting badly in my entire chest. I was admitted and put into ICU. My kidneys had probably shut down for those first four days. My lungs were damaged so I had to be on O2. I had to be on insulin to keep my sugar in check. Since there is no antidote for phosgene, all I could do was try to rest and hope I got better. After CT, MRI, EKG and EEG tests, as well as several blood tests it looked like, at least for now, there is no permanent damage. However, the MRI showed fluid in my sinuses and a buildup of fluids near my brain. The phosgene scarred my sinuses, which then became infected. The three doctors I saw said I was really lucky to make it.

After four weeks, it appears that I may have emphysema and chronic bronchitis. I'm on nasal medicine and an inhaler. My sinuses are severely scarred, and my smell nerves are damaged. I still have that awful chlorine taste and smell. I may also have pancreas damage, so I'm now on some stronger medicines.

So why am I telling you all this? I hope to save someone from an easily avoidable sever illness or even death. The cleaning sprays commonly found in thousands of bike shops across the country can be just as dangerous if improperly used. Read the labels and warnings! Look up the chemicals you use. Just because you got away with it before, doesn't mean you won't get in trouble next time.


Last edited by Angusdog on Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:35 am 
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Phosgene was used as a weapon in WW1 - bad bad stuff. Thanks for posting that


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:08 am 
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thats ****ed

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:11 am 
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Angusdog wrote:


tetrachloroethylene


everytime I use brake or carb cleaner, I wonder how much further my life expectancy is reduced. Powerful stuff & apparently deadly in some situations :twisted:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:16 am 
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As sited above - nerve gas during the 'Great War' - ( and probably since) He's luck to be alive and he WILL have continued problems health wise and a shortened life span as a result :cry:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 pm 
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The British used Phosgene and Mustard gas in WW2.
They try to keep it a secret.
The troops they used it on were Australian.
The location was Queensland.

I used to know one of the victims. :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:42 pm 
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Yep leave it in Mini Chat :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:21 pm 
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Very scary stuff. I think I'll be reading more safety labels at work from now on.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:21 pm 
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:shock: :shock: - we used it as fire starter many times... I'll NEVER again use it for that. :twisted: :?

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:21 am 
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if you get hurt please dont wait 9 days to seek professional help or assume you can self diagnose and treat by reading on the internet :cry:

also do not ever get under a mini held up by odd shaped pieces of wood.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:29 am 
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This is why i use a $2000+ speedglas air flow system when welding. What price do you put on your health?
http://www.awsupplies.com.au/adflo.aspx

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:46 am 
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Super-mini wrote:
if you get hurt please dont wait 9 days to seek professional help or assume you can self diagnose and treat by reading on the internet :cry:

also do not ever get under a mini held up by odd shaped pieces of wood.


another community service announcement from Captain Super SpaceTroll


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:10 pm 
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hi guys,
my 5 cents worth, as a qualified Health and Safety advisor (but the guys where I work call me the Safety dork!), all I can advise is that you try and have the same safety attitude at home as you would at work.

there is a heap of legislation on workplace health and safety but people tend to ignore it when they are working in their garage/workshop.

always read the labels, ask the supplier of products for the MSDS if you can as they usually only put the most serious risks on the can. you would be amazed at the potential health and safety risks a simple product can have (potential carcinogenic, risk to fertility etc)

just be careful and don't assume that products are safe because "there must be laws about what poo is put into a product" - other than lead and a few others, it is not very regulated.

thats all
from Mama Dribble :D


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:52 pm 
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Thats bad stuff, i weld a lot and always go to an effort to avoid the fumes created. Theres some you can see, like when you miss a bit of galv when cleaning metal, then theres what you can't tell is around that can kill you too.
No brake clean for me :shock:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:58 pm 
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Back to the original victim..
A bloke that welds corrosion holes in diesel tanks is probably not the sort of bloke with a long life expectancy anyway.
So let him get on with the job and stand well back. (ear plugs are optional)


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