There is nothing strange about it. This sort of thing has been going on since time began. Big companies often make the generic brands sold in stores, and why not! They are the ones with the production volume to make it commercially viable.

Now, this may seem like a really, really stupid question, but... Given you can buy roller rockers for Minis, and people seem to fit them (occasionally), why does no one talk about roller followers for Minis? Sure, Roller Rockers lessen side loadings on the valve stems, but wouldn't roller followers save cams, camshaft bearings..? Sorry it's a bit of a noob question.


A lot of people I know used to buy Black and Gold ice cream for exactly that reason. They worked at Pixie Ice Cream (Home Ice Cream), and they knew that the only difference between Pixie (which was good ice cream! But not super cheap) and Black and Gold was the packaging. It's common across all areas... Just look at fuel. How many refineries do we have in Australia? Fewer than we have (or had) fuel brands.

Roller followers have been tried by a few people over the years on race motors.
Trouble is, there is little room in the A series block design for bits to prevent the followers turning sideways, lunching themselves and the cam.
Also, it is difficult or impossible to get the valve acceleration and lift demanded by a race spec cam, using rollers. Again, due to limited space.
A flat faced follower does not have these problems. Some racers do use bigger diameter ones, to allow more radical cam profile and lift.
BTW the A series followers are not quite flat faced, they have a very large radius on them.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

and the radius is something like 74 inches

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120bhp with 450kg just fun waiting to happen

We were prob. drunk when we set it up last and thought this will be a good idea

74"?

Yep, put a straightedge across them, they are *almost* flat but not quite.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

What were the odds I'd get a sensible answer on here..? Especially one provided by Doc..? Or perhaps Morris1100, TheMiniMan... The list is pretty long! Thanks for the explanation - makes much sense.

On the oil thing, I reckon we should do up a list and then it should go into the "How To" section. A list as in something like the following:
- GR recommends a cheap mineral oil rated at 20W50, such as KMX from Kmart
- DrMini recommends a cheap mineral oil rated at 20W50, such as KMX from Kmart
- Leighton recommends KMX from Kmart
- Gafmo (Jim) recommends KMX from Kmart
- 1071 (Ian) recommends a good quality synthetic
- Super-Mini/Spaceboy recommends Castrol Edge 20W50 (or is it 25W50?)
- SuperSeven recommends KMX from Kmart
- Snail74 recommends Asparagus

So, the vast majority recommend a cheap 20W50 mineral oil such as KMX from Kmart.

That way, people can not only see what the majority use, but who is recommending which one.

Oh, and when I last did an oil change (surprisingly recently), I used the cheapest mineral oil I could get - just 20W50 Repco-branded stuff. $20 with a filter (which they even had in stock at Goodna ). So that's the brand currently marking the Mini's spot.

Better get to bed, or I'll never make it to the Muster! Not that the Mini's going (no child anchors).

and if everyone jumped off a cliff would you also?

use what fits your engine and your budget.

i dont recommend any particular brand of oil but i can tell you what I like and use on my engine thats quite different to your engine.

The reason I reckon we should see who recommends what is that some opinions hold more weight than others. Mine's pretty lightweight. If people have a supercharged/turbo'd mini, they're probably going to be more interested in opinions such as yours, 92, Slinkey, Pristic, etc than the opinions of those who are running bog stock 998's and haven't ever played with anything else. A list with names (and possibly engine types) helps that, a straight poll doesn't.

I really should be in bed.

Anyone tried Nulon's new oil? Claimed to reduce friction more than most other oils, but it's quite expensive.

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Slide
1965 Mini Van (1360)
1970 Mk2 Cooper S (1310)
1978 Rover SD1 V8 (4.6)
1996 Land Rover Discovery V8 (4.0)

i just recently tryed penrites 20w50... what a crap oil. im sorry i used it once in the my 94 laser and said i would never use it again, then out of deperation i used it in the van and now regret it.

ive used kmx since ive owned my mini on the basis that the guys would have fiddled with these cars the most would know best and im glad i did. kmx 20w50 is a great oil... its duriable, doesnt sludge (well not yet anyway), smells great and doesnt break down under extreme heat conditions ( so ive been told).

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oil leak?..what oil leak..that puddle under the car is just sweat from all that horsepower

Hi All,

Thought i would jump in and clear things up.

Back when i had the Mini 1000 class up and running i was approached by coleen from respect oils in QLD to try her racing 50 in the minis. When she come down here i had a motor on the dyno using K-Mart Oil. She asked me what oil i was using to run the motors in and what i was using to do testing with. I replied K-Mart's own brand KMX. She was horrified!

She asked me why i was using this oil, i told her because i had found it to be very good, held it's viscosity very good at high temperatures. She then gave me some of her racing 50 oil to try in the mini 1000's. We used the same bearings, camshafts and followers for two and a half years and they were not changed. The only thing changed were the rings every 12months.

After discussing the K-Mart Oil she had it tested for me by the people that blend her oils. She took a K-Mart sample and two other 20w50 oils at the same time in unmarked bottles.

The industrial chemists comments were "where did you get this oil" referring to the K-mart oil. She explained to him that this was a commercially available oil from a supermarket. His comment to that was you cannot produce the additive package that goes into this oil (the K-Mart Oil) as an everyday oil for that price.

He went on to explain that the oil was performance orientated, suitable for turbocharged engines and light diesels. She explained to him that this is also written on the labelling. She then took the oil and tried it in her test taxis. The oil was tested at 2500km, 5000km, 10,000km and i think at 15,000km as well. The Oil came up as an excellent oil every time.

Her comment to me was, i hope you don't tell too many people about this oil! Coleen has now sold the business and it is now called PM Lubricants in QLD. Their racing 50 oil that they produce is second to none as a mineral based oil but very expensive (about $15L). Coleen then checked into who was producing the oil at the time and how they could produce the quality for that price. The answer she got back was when you order 300,000L of Oil at a time you can have what you like in any coloured package! I think it was Mobil that originally blended the oil for them but it has now gone through at least two oil companies since. I think Shell first and now Caltex.

I still continue to use this oil in my road cars and on the dyno for running in and testing eg.BDA Engines running at 9500rpm. We just had a Holden 355 stroker engine on the dyno producing 523HP and 472ft/lb of torque on KMart Oil as well running at temperatures up to 215*F and encounter no problems with the oil at all.

Yes there are probably better oils on the open market but for quality and price i'll always use the K-Mart Oil in road engines.

After checking with 4 oil companies about labelling they all explained to me that if an oil is rated for turbocharged engines it has to be a good quality oil as they would be liable if the oil failed in operation and could be had up for false advertising.


This is what i have found and i am not qualified to analyse oil as probably nobody on here is. All the information i got came from a lab who are qualified to test oils.

P.S When Coleen owned the business nearly all the trucking companies in QLD, buses and taxis where running on respect oil.

Also, with Synthetic oils today they are mainly designed for overhead camshaft engines where the camshaft runs in a bath of oil all the time. When used in dinosaur engines like our minis if will not stick to the camshaft lobes, followers and rockers like the mineral based oils do as its thrown off because it's lacking a key additive that makes the oil stick to components. This is why Castrol originally designed the GP50 oil for larry perkins because they were having rocker gear failure and the oil was not sticking to the roller rockers or the camshaft, this is now known as Castrol Edge 25w50 but i do not know if it is still the same oil (same ingredients) but we still use this in a lot of racing minis with a tube of molybond 2.5 (60g)

http://www.molybond.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=67&Itemid=118

Graham Russell

Thats a snorter!
Thanks GR.

The Molybond is interesting, the link indicates it is 20 percent by volume colloidal (diluted in a solution) molybdenum disulphide. Is this added to help with cam folower wear/damage?

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SooperDooperMiniCooperExpertEngineering

All garage work involves equal measures of enthusiasm, ingenuity and a fair degree of irresponsibility.

Hi Mick
Yes Mick i get by with a little help from my friends.
Not only is it good for the cam and followers, its really good for the
bearings and especially the gear box, but you must pre mix it with
your oil before you pour it into your motor,and dont leave your car
sit for 3 or 4 months with out driving it because it will settle out of
the oil
Graham Russell

I suppose I should worry that after 17 years my cam must be getting ready to chuck it in.

A few years ago I was the logistics manager for the Army's heavy vehicle fleet. One of the resources available was DSTOs material research lab. In the view of their lubrication expert, synthetics provide inherently more protection as they don't rely in any great degree on additive packages.

A couple of times I've been tempted to save money and used normal oil. The change in the level of debris on the magnetic plug has always driven me straight back to a synthetic. I used to use 5W60 Shell Helix but that seems to have disappeared. Edge 10W60 seems to be as close as you can get these days.

You pays your money and takes your chances.....

Cheers, Ian