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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:30 am 
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NG, buy my GT!

Doogie

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:21 am 
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Wasn't there something about both Leyland Aus and Fiat both buying steel from china or russia rolled from scrapped WW11 warships. Just rolled the rust into the steel sheets.

That triggers a memory cell from somewhere

Mike


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:12 pm 
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[quote="doogie"]NG, buy my GT!

Doogie[/quote]

Doogie, I'm a generous person. So i'll give you $800 for yours. Not to be rude and I appreciate the money you've spent on it but be honest, it is a long way from "ready for paint", and I think the fact that it passed in how many times on ebay only backs up what I'm saying. C'mon, you've come this far. Just finish. Just finish before it ends up sitting around so long that you have to take it to sims. YOU CAN DO IT DOOGIE!!! :P


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:47 pm 
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Mike_Byron wrote:
Wasn't there something about both Leyland Aus and Fiat both buying steel from china or russia rolled from scrapped WW11 warships. Just rolled the rust into the steel sheets.

That triggers a memory cell from somewhere

Mike
Not Leyland Australia. :wink: I think that Fiat, Alfa and maybe British Leyland may have gotten the rusty Russian steel. The cars with the rust prone steel get rust forming right in the middle of painted panels rather than in the joins and seams like the late Minis did.

The Australian Minis with the rust problems had their panels stamped by Chrysler in Adelaide. The rust problems started in the cars built from about 77. The move to Enfield was at the end of 74.

I doubt that the problem was workers peeing in the paint because they knew that they were soon to be out of a job. Because when they stopped making Minis the factory made other cars, so the worker were not out of a job.
The rust in Mins was in 77/78 and the factory didn't close till 82. The least rusty Mokes were the ones built in 80 to 82.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:01 pm 
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Ok, so lets say you boss just told you that the bread butter product that your company made is going to cease production, you want to tell me that you wouldn't be nervous... that there wouldn't rumors spreading around that the end is coming... Before you start telling us about how the mini never made any money yeah we all know but come on... canary in the coal mine budy. I'd pee in the paint. How better to say thanks for nothing you nancys. And the reason that the late mokes didn't rust is cos they were gal. All the pee in the world wouldn't up set them... well it might a little..


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:08 pm 
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Actually the galvanising on the late mokes is super thin and not as strong as people think , depends on the day they were done I guess but I've seen some that were brilliant and some that looked like a poor version of undercoat .

As for peeing in paint , has anyone actually checked if auto paint will mix with water (or urine) ? I've seen minute water bubbles in painted cars from the water in the compressor/not using a water trap , don't know if it will mix with the paint itself ???

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:09 pm 
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The bread and butter product at Enfield was the Land-Rover and the Mini was just a sideline. :lol:
When the Mini went out of production at Enfield it was because they needed the production capacity for other vehicles. It was quite openly advertised at the time. The workers would have known this.

I would not tell you the Mini didn't make money. :wink: I have studied that myth for a while.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:43 pm 
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[quote="Morris 1100"]
I would not tell you the Mini didn't make money. :wink: I have studied that [u]myth[/u] for a while.[/quote]

Nice to see I'm not the only one to question that old wives tail.

I didn't know about the Land Rovers... There you go. Maybe they didn't pee in the paint after all... :shock:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:40 pm 
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Gezo wrote:
Early GT's had Mark 2 S blocks, the later ones had 1100S style block minus the two extra head studs.


They did actually have the 2 extra head studs as per Cooper S


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:17 am 
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1098cc
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Oh dear.

It seems I might be wasting my time with some of the articles I've written.

Does no-one on this thread read The Mini Experience (now, I know some of you are subscribers, so don't jump in too quickly).

A few things I have uncovered, and a few myths to dispell:

Clubman GT - around 1,200 built of which possibly 200+ went to NZ (Issue 19)
Mini Sunshine - 360 built (Issue 7)
Mini SS - 500 built (Issue 15)
Mini LS - unknown, as it was a normal production model in 1977 and 1978. Records or production figures not available. However, it has been suggested from people who should know that production was around 4-5 cars per day, which means around 1,500 built in total. (Issue 15)
1275 LS - possibly as few as 900 built, but popular belief is around 1,000. Some suggest as high as 1,200. No figures available. (Issue 16).

Clubman GT: Yes, there are early and late Clubman GTs, even though total production was only from about July 1971 (release date was August) to December 1972 (compliance plates fitted in January 1973 were probably on December 1972-built cars). The 9F-numbered Cooper S engines were used for the first 270 or so cars. Following that, engine numbers were given a 1200 prefix (1201 and 1202 engines were replacement blocks) or 1205 for the police-spec engines. These engines were probably Mk3 (UK) Cooper S engines, as they have the same part number as the Cooper S blocks. Around 560 or so GTs were fitted with these engines. While earlier 9F engines and some 1200 engines had Nitrided cranks, the later 1200 engines had Tuftrided cranks (yes, I got this arse about in the story, but have made the correction in Issue 20), as per the UK Mk3 Cooper S.

All these Cooper S engines used in the Clubman GT were exactly to the same specification as the Cooper S.

The "Rationalised" 1275cc engine, from the UK Morris/Austin 1300 (and Australian Morris 1100S) and the UK's 1275GT, was used only from about December 1972, and for the last 370 or so GTs

These engines were modified with higher compression and fitted with Cooper S ancilliaries, such as twin carburettors, and reputedly had the same power output.

There are of course lots of other changes between early and late GTs, but generally the change-over is accepted as being from January 1972 with introduction of ADRs which required fitting of head restraints on the front seats, steering/ignition locks and numerous other minor changes.

The police-spec Clubman GT (SPO28) - of which only 108 were built and of these around 90 actually served with the NSW Police as Special Traffic pursuit cars - used the Cooper S engines with twin 1.5" carbs and the usual modifications for police-spec Cooper S.


Rust: most of the problems with rust seem to occur with Minis built in 1975 to possibly 1976. When production moved to Enfield rust-proofing was done by a dip-and-dunk sort of arrangement, which only dipped the body half way up. This was later modified to give full immersion in the bath. However, even with the later method the process was not as good as the Rotodip at Zetland. Apparently a thinner gauge steel may have been used on the later cars, but I have not been able to confirm this.


Quote:
The bread and butter product at Enfield was the Land-Rover and the Mini was just a sideline.


So, why did they move Land Rover to the back of the factory and give Mini and Moke production the prime, and larger, area at the front of the factory? Neither Land Rover nor Mini apparently made large profits, but Mini was still selling in reasonable numbers - around 10,000+ per year.

It is repeated time and again that Mini never made a profit. However, if that is the case, why were the only two cars to survive the 1974 rationalisation - where David Abel was under the strict orders from Leyland in the UK to only retain vehicles that could be made profitably - the Mini and the Moke.

P76, Marina, Tasman, Kimberly, were all axed. Mini and Moke survived.

Body panel stampings: The Enfield plant had a relatively small press shop. They were stamping aluminium panels for Land Rover before Mini production moved to Enfield. Most panels for Mini and Moke were stamped in-house at Enfield. It would appear that only the largest panels, that were beyond Enfield's capacity, such as roof and floor, and possibly bonnets, were stamped at Chrysler in Adelaide.


Gal bodies on Mokes: Mokes were not hot-dip galvanised. They were made from Galvabond sheet steel. While they certainly do not rust as badly as earlier Mokes (particularly pre-1980 Enfield Mokes) the paint did not adhere to the bodies very well and they will rust if neglected - especially around spot-welds and joins, as well as the usual water-trap areas - inside side-boxes, body seams, etc.

Zetland-built Mokes (1966 to 1974) were Rotodip treated, but because of the design, with many areas to trap dirt and water, as well as the fact that Mokes have always been notoriously badly cared for, they are likely to rust quite badly.

Cheers,
Watto. :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:15 am 
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848cc
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GT mowog wrote:

They did actually have the 2 extra head studs as per Cooper S


What he said.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:43 am 
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1098cc
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Hi watto,

I love TME, sadly for me there is another in my house who gets to them first and I never get to see them :cry: I'll go pinch them later and have a read.

Your the second person to bring up the gal body mokes recently. I fully understand what you've said and it makes sense... but... I was wondering if you know why it is that when you see them bare, none of the welds are burnt? Normally when you try welding someting like galvabond you get burning even around spot welds? Just wondering if you know cos having seen a large number bare, and it doesn't make sense to me either, but they look like they were welded and THEN they some how adhered zinc to it?

The other thing watto, I think you mean they don't rust as bad as pre november 1979 mokes :mrgreen: sorry I couldn't help myself, I'll be quite and stop stiring :lol: (I'm joking of course you knew that)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:48 am 
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1098cc
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Location: Geelong, Victoria
Quote:
I think you mean they don't rust as bad as pre november 1979 mokes


Yes, quite. Although to be really pedantic, if the release was November, they were probably building them at least as early as October.

As for the weld question - I have no idea. That is beyond my level of technical incompetence. However, I have been told by the production people, and had it confirmed from a number of other sources, that the Gal Mokes were made from Galvabond steel.


Quote:
I love TME, sadly for me there is another in my house who gets to them first and I never get to see them


One word for that:- "Subscribe" :D

Cheers,
Watto. :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:21 am 
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Couple of comments on Wattos answer

Thickness - if its any help my English built Oz assembled 63 model the outer A panel is 1mm and the inner is 0.75mm - someone may like to compare with later production cars.

The story about the Mini not making money may have come from the period when BMC in England was owned by the Government and there was a downturn in the economy. It was decided that it was cheaper to keep the workers employed producing cars below cost than to lay everyone off and put them on the dole. This information was on the 50 years on Mini CD on the front of the MiniMag Anniversary special.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:23 pm 
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The on going myth / story about the mini not making money only points further to how dis-organised this 'company' really was.

'No one knows, so we just keep building them'

Imagine running a business like that today HA...now where's that GE Finance application...........


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