[quote="blue_deluxe"]Looks fantastic, definitely one to print off for keeps.

Is there any chance you could do a comparison of the different types of paints, enamel, 2pak etc and what paint is used for what uses?[/quote]

I can answer that now if you like. The above is just a how to for Acrylic.

Most cars used to be painted with a product called Nitrocellulose paint (Duco). It was a by product from the process involed in making nitroglycerin and gun cotton. And yes it's fumes were highly explosive. I don't know how true it is, but apparently if you let duco dry on a rag and then strcuk it with a hamer it could under some conditions ignite. Apparently. Duco is not well suited to sunny conditions and goes milky and chalky quickly in the sun, it required a cut and polish by monthly under assuie conditions. Ok in the UK but not here. It was phased out I think in the 1950's in australia. It is still some times used in the UK.

The other paint that was in use as an alternitive was Auto Baked Enamel. This stuff was a bit more durable I'm told. Plus it was glossy off the gun. I think some of the early BMC cars were painted in baked enamel. Problem with this stuff is that it can chip and scratch a bit easy and becomes brittle with age.

GMH (thats right holden australia... at least its australian) came out with this amazing stuff to replace Duco. It was called Acrylic Lacquer. It was much better suited to aussie conditions as it coped much better with UV light. It still requires a cut and polish once in a while, but depending on how much exposure to the sun your car has had you can get away with ignoring it for quiet a long time. It needs priming before use. It is fussy about what it will stick to, so painting a grease dirty motor that you just whiped off with a rag might be hard. For things like mechanical parts and sub assemblies its hard to go past enamel. Its glossy off the gun and a bit tuffer in these places. acrylic will scratch easier than enamel.

As of about 1993 most cars were coming out in the latest product, 2k. This stuff is glossy off the gun, so it doesn't require compounding (although you can to a degree), its tuffer than acrylic. It stands up to the sun better, it has a much harder finish. Its pretty good stuff and is what almost every single panel shop uses today because it is quicker to deal with because it doesn't require compounding. Its harder to scratch too.
Now for the buts... Its much more expensive than acrylic, its much harder to touch up, it really does require baking in an oven (you can get away with out an oven but its ideal), some people have the opinion and all it is is an opinion that it looks plasticy and lifeless compared to acrylic. That's pretty superficial right, well there is also the problem that its pretty deadly stuff.

The carcinogens it creates will cause pretty much the same soughts of problems you would experience from stuffing 50 cigars in your mouth, blocking your nose and only breathing in the smoke for a week, except it does that much damage with every breath, you draw 30 breaths a minute, times by the hours it take to paint a car, you get the idea. If you used this stuff in your shed for a year without an air fed mask you would probably develope cancer. You need an air fed mask when using this stuff (by law you need one) because there aren't any filters that stand up to the task. The european union is in the pushing for a replacement product so they can phase this stuff out because of the health and environmental problems it causes. So far they have come out with a water based enamel, but its only good for colour coats, you still need to use 2k clear over it, so its half way there. Here in the land of oz, as of the 31/12/2008 al cars bulit here must be painted with water based colour. Panel shops are going to start making the move towards this stuff in the next few years too. Its just too expensive at the moment.

Apart from that it is only just barely legal to spray acrylic at home (some councils have outlawed it I THINK, so just check), 2k is out of the question.

Thanks, Thats answered all of my questions about that. Even wikipedia was rubbish at it for giving an outline on what types there are.

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Simplify and add lightness

Nice work Alex, you are a braver man than I for writing such a detailed how to - I like it when you say "send back to body shop" - if only it was that easy

A few things you may or may not want to include, I'm not as familiar with single pack finishes as you are as I use 2 pack finishes:

You may want to make a note that when you purchase your paint to get a copy of the tech sheet from the supplier - this will have essential informaiton such as flash time, gun setup and suitable preparation of the substrate - these are also available on the internet a lot of the time too.

There was no mention of body filler as I believe this is more of a "body shop" issue but for those doing this at home they don't have this option unfortunately. You may want to make a few basic points about filler ie: apply directly to the metal after sanding, DO NOT wetsand etc etc

When pouring the paint into the gun you should always use a filter - I think someone has already mentioned this - if you're buying all your paint from one place they normally will throw a few in for free for you.

Always mix the paint very well before using it, if stirring it do it for a few minutes at least, also use a clean stirrer

In relation to guns what you have put for setup is excellent information - you may also like to mention you can buy regulators that go on the end of the gun to fine tune the pressure and also little filters to filter any contaminates from the air you're using

Maybe a mention about purchasing a good quality mask with an organic filter - the more expensive ones tend to fit better and do not get as uncomfortable. Just on a side note I've heard a lot of people say that they use an organic mask whilst spraying 2 pack but change the filters more reguarly, what are your experiences where you are? (I use a fresh air face shield as I don't want to take the chance...)

Use of good quality masking tape is essential - less time dealing with ripped tape etc etc

I wouldn't be putting wax on the new coating for quite a few weeks untill all the solvent has come out of the paint due to the risks of solvent popping etc

There's no mention of applying a seam sealer

In regards to cutting the paint a lot of people start with a lambs wool pad as it provides a heavier cut to the paint than foam, once they have finished with the lambs wool they then switch to foam with the same or different compounds

2 pack paints are the way to go (in my opinion) but as we've briefly discussed in another thread there are a few issues with using them (mainly health and council) at home. If people have the option or ability a good epoxy primer will give better primer benefits (rust and chip protection being two) and the top colour/clear coats will also be more resistant to chemicals (brake fluid/fuel) than a single pack.

And finally buy good quality paint!!!

There are so many options/way to do things with painting it can get quite confusing but you've done a great job of telling people the differences.

What you have written is great and I hope you keep the good work up

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holy crap phat kat.

I haven't actually read ANYTHING yet but am super impressed with what I've seen based on effort alone!

Thanks for taking the time to put it all down. I'll print it off and read it on the train on the way to/from work..

Top stuff mate.

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Excellent job Phat!
Wish I could add to it for you, but you've covered it better than I could.
All painting that I do is done in a spray booth at work under controlled conditions, hence the reason I use 2pak. My acrylic, enamel, etc, etc experience is limited, so I find your post to be of a great help.
Must say though, you have big kegs to go that indepth.
Hope to see more topics from you!
mick

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Chuck Norris is the only person alive who can kick you in the back of the face!!
mooo, I'm a pig!

Thanks for that PK, whats the process for completely flat paint not one spot of shine anywhere , more specifically a very flat Black .


.

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Holly crap guys, i really wasn't out for any kind of praise here, I just wanted to help out. Thanks.

britishvita I was hoping you'd put your thoughts up . You've given me a bit of food for thought there. A couple of those points i will take care of in the final version, and a couple now.

Masks are something I meant to mention but forgot all about. For acriylic you should use a class A1 organic vapour filtered mask. For 2k you should use nothing but an air fed face sheild because there is no mask fitted filter that will take the carcinogenic vapour out of the air sufficiently enough to be fit for humans (or french people). It doesn't matter if they are new, all they will filter out is the air born particles (which will help a lot don't get me wrong) but even with a filter its just as dangerous as petrol sniffing. Don't chance it, I don't care how macho you think you are, I'm not interested and you shouldn't encourage others to do things that could be damaging to their health (even if they are french).

Waxing, Leighton mentioned it earlier and I totally forgot about it. You need to wait at least 4 weeks before waxing. It takes at least that long for all of the solvents to escape. If you wax to soon, they get trapped and create pin holes in what was a freshly componded paint job. The worst case of this I have ever seen was a car that was compounded and waxed 2 days after painting. A week later it had orange peal again and you would swear it was never compounded. If you need to compound the car and get it moving thats totally fine, but don't wax it for at least 4 weeks. And yes Leighton, 6 weeks is ideal, right on target budy

micowen, you're another one I was hoping to hear from. Sorry I left you with nothing to say, but if I might have just helped you out then great. "Must say though, you have big kegs to go that indepth" Mick, vague answers only create more problems than they solve... Not to sure what your getting at there... acrylics aren''t used in the trade anymore so its not like I'm going to be sending anyone broke, besides which, these days there are not a lot of panel shops that will take an interest in older cars, I remember that from experience. Most places won't go near them cos it takes them too long to do a good job and in the mean time they are just taking up valuable space (more from a panel beating point of view). If people want to have a go they shouldn't be held back. If I get critised by anyone because of the method that I have posted, well, it is a correct method, I don't know how many times I've done that way (or very close to it) with out drama and I think it was miniDave that mentioned that there are a lot of different ways of going about it and that different doesn't mean wrong (unless your just being fed BS).

What I am worried about is the fact that I might have missed some tips that are obvious to me but not to a first timer.

74snail, if you are after that "rat rod" unfinished, rough, old looking matt finish, follow that procedure that I posted up and stop BEFORE you flow coat. You will have no (or very little) gloss. Don't compound it cos thats where the shine comes from. Don't try and buff it at all for any reason because you will start to get gloss out of it. That is the easiest way of achieving what you are after and the cheapest. If you are going for more of that modern exotic car (lambo I think is one) matt look that is becoming trendy, I would suggest doing it in 2k, there is a matting product you mix with the clear which will obsorb any of the off the gun gloss, but again don't try and buff it cos it will still gloss up. And again, don't spray it in your back yard.


Thanks everyone. Keep it coming, I want to make sure that this is user friendly. A lot of you seem to be asking for more info and are asking for more details. Is there anyone who objects? Anyone who already thinks its too long? Please don't be shy, I'm interested.

More detail == good

Don't be afraid to write, as long as its laid out well

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Simon

The adventures of an owner builder in the Tallarook Ranges

Good job Phat Kat very well writen.

In regards to your question about is it to long or not i say it could never be to long

Just a couple things that i think you should add, i think people may have already mention some of these.

When you prepsol your car befor painting make sure you use 2 cloths one for applying the prepsol the other for whiping it off and use rubber gloves also so the oil from your hands doesn't get on any of the panels.

I know you diden't cover metallic paints but i thought i would add when it comes to mixing your metallic paint don't shake the tin to try mix it up as alot of the pigment in the paint will get stuck on the lid. You should also never sand metallic paint as you will damage the metal flakes in it.

The point that Trixitrine made about using tape on the style lines is a good one it is a trick i use myself it's a very good way for getting really straight style lines.

I also use the largest block a can on a panel this will bring up the low spots alot more then what a small block will as a small block will skip over alot of the smaller dents.

Another little trick is after all the sanding is done and your ready to put colour on put some prepsol in your spray gun and spray a each panel on your car individualy because when you do this the prepsol will give the panel a flat glossy look so you can then give the panel a good look over to make sure you haven't missed any dents, yes you will use a little prepsol but it's better you use a little more prepsol then paint the whole car and find out there is a dent in the middle of your door you missed.

Cheers Dan

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Cheers Dan

FIRST COMES THE MONEY, THEN COMES THE POWER, THEN COMES THE WOMEN.!!

Thanks sgc, thanks Dan,

That an interesting trick with the prepsol... I haven't heard that one before. I think I'll test that one.

Rubber gloves, good idea, they encouraged us to wear gloves at tafe. The problem I found is that they disolve as soon as you get thinners or a lot of prepsol on them, so I've never worn them (and I've got skin to proove it mind you). I do wash my hands before doing any painting, especially after eating.

I wanted to cover metallic but I was affraid that it would be too long if I did. I cover what you've mentioned there in the metallic section which I'm starting to think I should put back in. All good points there especially regarding the sanding, thats one that catches a lot of first timers.

Taping is another good one thanks trix and dan. The use of long blocks is something that I thought covered, I know I mentioned it in the panel beating basics I'm writing now, but I will make sure it ends up in the painting "how to" too.

Thanks guys

Too long?!? I dont think so....more info is a good thing Why stop here mate, I will now be waiting for the published works "Acrylic Paint Restorations for Mini Enthusiasts"

I think it was Trixi that mentioned some detail regarding with rubbing back and flat blocking etc in regards to certain panels on a mini...perhaps you could advise if there is anything specific to mini panels that would be done different to more "square" cars, it would be appreciated

Phat Kat,
Been going thru your DIY list now, and being a novice noticed you did not use the 'clear' paint (?). I am doing mine in acrylic, and not metallic. Do I still use the clear?

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1966 Morris Mini Deluxe
.... 4 bicycles and 3 screaming kids.

[quote="marc2131"][quote="Phat Kat"] 4lts of clear (if a metallic is to be used otherwise just one liter) [/quote]

Phat Kat,
Been going thru your DIY list now, and being a novice noticed you did not use the 'clear' paint (?). I am doing mine in acrylic, and not metallic. Do I still use the clear?[/quote]

Hi marc,

Ill clear that up (ha ha ha I'm so funny)... Solid colours (non metallic or mica) are reffered to as Direct Gloss (DG). You do not need to do a full clear coat over direct gloss because you would normally just compound the colour. You can clear coat solids but its not needed. If you are using Direct Gloss paint, you would only use the clear in the flow coat I spoke about. You will compond most of the flow coat off, but what it is for is places you can't compound properly, gutters, sills, engine bays, parts of the interior etc. Using a little bit of clear in the flow coat will give the uncompounded paint extra off the gun shine. It is also much easier to compound a flow coated paint job. So thats why you do the whole car.

Does that answer you question? I'll clear that up in the final version the "Acrylic Paint Restoration for Mini Enthusiasts" as jasonf put it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Phat Kat - just beginning to notice the need for a glossary of terms:

eg Compounding - you have described it very well but I just picked up you saying it takes most of the flow coat off - so maybe a brief description/definition for us novices

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David L


My greatest fear in life is that when I die my wife will sell my Mini and tools for the price I told her I paid for them!

[quote="Phat Kat"]Thanks sgc, thanks Dan,

That an interesting trick with the prepsol... I haven't heard that one before. I think I'll test that one.

This is also something that airbrush artists also use over their basecoats to check the appearance of the finish jobs prior to applying clear. In my opinion definately a great tip for checking panel work.

Brian

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"Investing my Super in a Cooper" &
"Re-living my Surfing Past in a Woody"