We are restricted to 10" x 5" wheels in the Historic classes.

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Curly
'64 Cooper 'S' (Group Nb spec)
'67 Mini Marcos GT www.mm7056.wordpress.com

Mini7boy,

Graham helps prepare Creig Malaure's car and he ALWAYS runs at the front (most of the time way out in front). On the same old Yoko's we have available.

HRS

Hi mini7Boy
Am i right in saying you come from the land of stars and stripes?
I help a guy out by the name of richard paterson from canada and a few others from there as well, now in your 50th year of the mini race at (you may have to help me out here) minasota? i told richard how to set his car up on the yokos for that race, now on the first lap in the first corner he drove round the out side of the slick and hoosier cars and in 2 laps opened up a 5/7 second lead over the other cars before he had dizzy problems and had to stop, but it was quite funny, before the race they were all having a dig at him about using thoes skinny little tyres,but they were not laughing so much after the race.we use the same tyre as you do in both the hoosier and the yokos, on our minis up to 1964 we can run a 5.5 rim and cars from 64 to 72 we can run a 6in rim which does really help the radials, im just about to send richard over a nother cylinder head with a set of my exhaust and inlet manifold for his new historic mini and it will be running on radials so well see what happens
Graham Russell

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"It's better to be not informed than ill-informed"

Ok,,, when i grow up, i want to be the best & fastest mini driver in the whole wide world

Now,,, just need to build the best & fastest mini in the whole wide world & my mission will be complete

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

Hello Graham,

your story about Paterson is amusing to read, but it omits several critical facts that paint a much different picture than you portray.

I was at the Minnesota(Brainerd) race and the Mosport race the weekend before that. Paterson ran at both events. I spoke with him at both events and took a few pictures of his car.

1) The first "turn" at Minnesota you mention is actually flat-out, and then some, for Minis since it is effectively a straightaway for Minis. Any Mini with more power can easily pass lesser cars there simply by powering around the outside of them. Regardless of tires installed.

See: http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Brainerd_International_Raceway#Track_Map

for a diagram of the track. The lower diagram shows the track actually used for the Mini race. Both diagrams are effectively identical for turns 1-3. Minis are flatout until Turn 3. The track was modified starting after turn 3.

2) Paterson was running a fuel-injected 8-port Mini head, so he had a lot more power than anyone else in the entire race !!!!

3) If you combine items #1 and #2, even Ray Charles can see how Paterson passed normal 5-port Minis "in the first TURN" (as you say).
Paterson simply outpowered them.

My memory is suspect, but I really don't remember Paterson ever leading the race. I would have thought I would remember something so noteworthy, should it have happened. I am almost positive it did not.

I guess the Yokos like a lot of negative camber since Paterson's car was running quite a bit.

We all know that speed in roadracing is achieved through some combination of engine, corner exit speed and driver ability. This is what makes roadracing so interesting and enjoyable. A car/driver combination lacking in one or two of these areas may well beat other cars because of an advantage in the third area.

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"it's always better to be uninformed than ill-informed"

Graham,

I forgot to mention that Paterson was the the only one in the Minnesota race who was running the Yokos.

Perhaps Paterson runs the Yokos so as to compensate for the overwhelming engine advantage he brings to his races.

If you don't have cornering power, engine power is the next best thing.

Keep smilin'. I'm just having a little good-natured fun at your expense.

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"it's always better to be uninformed than ill-informed"

HI Mini7Boy
You also for got to mention that that was richards rally car that was over 100 kg heavier than than the other cars and dyrkes car was on slicks, but i guess time will tell ill still stick with the yoks.
Graham Russell

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"It's better to be not informed than ill-informed"

So in the mean time do we just call you Mr. Average?

HI Mini7BOY
I for got to mention richards motor is only making the same sort of HP as the motor in my car which is 1330 5 port
Graham Russell

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"It's better to be not informed than ill-informed"

now now boys & girls, lets not make this like one of NG`s or BIAMs threads, we are (after all) quite mature aren`t we? (ok maybe not me) but, lets just put this down to a whole pile of variables shall we???

lets just say that not everyone builds an engine the same , IE" not everyone likes to build great big ports with great big valves & great big bores & swirled valves & huge 9000rpm cams & massive high compression with super close ratio gear kits , super lightweight internals with really high reving engines & super zippy f/d gears... maybe there`s some people out there who rather build a milder (Longer lasting) lower reving engine, with smaller valves , maybe more attention to low rev air flow, smaller ports, milder cam & maybe even torquey-er & broader , more easilly usable/ drivable power spread because of all that , maybe taller gears etc,,, making for a much more suitable set-up for some tracks & driving styles --> yeah?

Maybe there`s some people out there who wholey & souly & totally believe that all the testing that "THEY" have done shows that there is no better way than the way "They" do things yeah?

maybe there`s a bit of that in all of us & maybe there`s really no "one" way to skin a cat the fastest???

Maybe we have situations where a softer suspension with one particular tyre & more camber or less caster or toe, would produce better results on "some" tracks with a "certain" driving style & a "certain" type of power delivery with a "certain" amount of power---> yeah??? Maybe there`s still some testing to go yeah??? Maybe there are some people who have been testing & havn`t yet revieled their results ---> yeah???

Maybe a slightly stiffer shell & suspension, with another brand of tyre & a certain driving style & a certain type of power spread (maybe different from other peoples) would do better at some tracks--->Yeah???

Maybe simply a huge amount of track time & experience just at one track in particular could be all that`s needed to beat another persons` "Normally" faster at other tracks combination---> yeah?

we all have our own ways of doing things & i can see some very interesting points to quite a number of mini racers "set-ups"

I`ve been around for quite a long time, i`ve talked with quite a few (mega) of the older guys who used to race & even helped out a lot of them, But my circuit racing has been quite limited compared to the other disciplins i`ve raced all my life (nearly 40 years of racing minis i might add) But of the circuits i`ve raced mainly at Lakeside, QR & Morgan Pk

& i know i`m quick at Lakeside, (Just ask me ) i`m not as quick at QR (but not too far off the pace) & i havn`t had much time around Morgan Pk (the big track) i did heaps of laps around it when it was the small track, but that is soooo different to the big track, so i can`t comment "solidly" on what works well at Morgan PK (yet)

I certainly can`t comment on tracks on the other side of the planet (except a couple in England that i drove on) So i don`t believe, or rather, i doubt i could work out why some mini racer was quicker than another, simply based on "ONE" item on the car,,,

i don`t believe that any "ONE" thing like tyres would be the difference between one racer & another, "ESPECIALLY" when the tyres in question are so close in lap times (in general) as in "Nearly" all who use them comment on there not being "Much" difference in them except that some like the feel of the hoosiers better than the yokos (or vice-versa) &/or American racers as the case may be.

So,,, im just going to back out of this one now,,, i feel there are "TOO" many variables in a complete race mini package & it`s drivers style & the tyres avaliable & the differnt set-ups that make up that whole package , whether it be fast or just fun for the person concerned

I`ve been head-hunted by a few people over the years , constanly badgered to build & race a group N mini,,, but i have way too many cars being built at the moment to be able to come to that exclusive & ever so competitive Group-N round table,,, for me to comment any further on this would make me quite "Average"... a level of which (as it seems) is above my current situation.

Edit--> Please note all these smileys,,, they`re meant to mean i`m light-hearted about it

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No offence intended here but--> anyone writing a book about minis 30 years ago may not have experienced such worn or stuffed-with components as we are finding these days.

You should put your heart & soul into everything you do.

which proves WHAT ????

that Yokos are faster? That Greig's engine is the fastest out there? Or that Greig is the best driver out there? All three ???

Your statement is meaningless and displays a lack of knowledge about road racing.

You don't even mention which tires are used on the cars he beats.

I know full well that Malaure wins with Graham's best effort for an engine and have know it for years.

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"it's always better to be uninformed than ill-informed"

Hello Graham,

since I was nowhere near the scales the entire event and Paterson never told me his car was heavy, I had no way to know that. Still, Brainerd has such VERY LONG straights that the weight issue is neutralized. Besides, he still SHOULD have had way more power than any of the 5-ports running. If his fuel-injected 8-port puts out no more power than your 1330, then maybe he needs to spend some more of his riches and do it right.....either that or pay somebody else to do it right since he obviously isn't getting his money's worth, is he? I mean, if all of his trouble and expense for an 8 port head and fuel injection nets him no more power than a carbed 1330, then why bother? Somebody's not clear on the concept here and it's not me.

This started off as your misinformed opinion about just what was, and what wasn't, proven at Brainerd with respect to Yokos. I was there and you weren’t. Now you are backpedaling talking about car weights and power. Sounds like desperation to me, it does. The simple fact is that the layout of the course favored cars with more power than others.

The plain fact of it is that NOTHING was proven at Brainerd with respect to tires. All that was proven is that you have to prepare your car to run the full race's distance if you want to win the race. Paterson's car had so damned much oil leaking and dripping off of it that his Yokos might have been brilliant if they hadn't had to slip around in the car's own oil. Hahaha. He made a mess of his paddock space. I also have a photo to show what a gusher his engine was……AFTER they cleaned it up.

Paterson was never in the lead of the race. He lead only the legitimate vintage racers who were on 5-ports and treaded Hoosiers...for a while.. totally on the basis of power. The Huffaker and Peterson slick-tired 1310cc Minis left him in the dust.....as I would have expected.

I’m not trying to be unfriendly here, but I have been around road racing for far too long not to recognize when people take shortcuts in explaining to me why a given car/driver is fast. When somebody tries to convince me that a fuel-injected 8-port is faster than 5-port carbed engined cars just because of its tires, I just have to smile. I saw the Paterson car at two race venues and it was very obvious where his speed comes from. It sure as Hell ain’t the tires.

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"it's always better to be uninformed than ill-informed"

i think the GR engined cars are much more powerful, this is why they run way out in front, they could probably run kumho powerstars and they'd still be way out in front.


any opinions on the dunlop formula R? they're cheap as.

Thanks, Super-Mini, for confirming my suspicions.

A trained eye can easily distinguish between corner exit speed superiority and engine superiority. So it it shouldn't be any mystery to experienced race observers which factor(s) is/are causing one car/driver to be faster than others.

I have no knowledge about Dunlop Rs. Are they known by any other names?

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"it's always better to be uninformed than ill-informed"

http://www.garysmotorsporttyres.com.au/ ... s.cfm?id=3

D93J.

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DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.