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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:00 pm 
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Everyone with an interest in older cars is urged to contact their local member or the Dept and complain loudly....

Hi Mick

The ASRF bulletin I put together is here:

http://asrf.org.au/docs/Import-Bulletin-001.pdf

It contains linkages to the doco on the Infrastructure website

The issue affects ANY modified vehicle, however the major issues are that there are no guidlines on what level of modification is "too modified", the decision is made based on looking at one photo, by a public servant who requires no qualifications whatsoever to make the decision.

It is primarily affecting StreetRods, registerable race cars and muscle cars at present, but I believe it should be of concern to ALL car people as it smells like the "thin edge of the wedge" to me.

"Technically" a standard 38 Ford coupe with tube shocks and hydraulic brakes is now redated based on the year the last mod was completed, and if you can't PROVE this date is before 1/1/1989 then the car is no longer elligable for import under regulation 17.......how can you PROVE this if the brakes and shocks were fitted in 1946 by some long forgotten mechanic, at the local garage

It gets worse when you start thinking about specials, boat-tail roadsters, historic race cars etc etc ...... all out, unless you can PROVE a date of modification.

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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 6:43 pm 
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This is a ridiculous piece of legislation.

I have left feedback via the DOI website.

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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 7:23 pm 
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I love this bit from the VSB10:

"if the vehicle has been modified, supply a complete list of all medications and evidence of when the modification were completed" :roll:

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 Post subject: shiney bums
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:42 am 
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miniDave wrote:
I love this bit from the VSB10:

"if the vehicle has been modified, supply a complete list of all medications and evidence of when the modification were completed" :roll:


Make no mistake...these shiney bums with glasses like the bottom of coke bottles are set to divide and conquer....just look what happened a few years ago to the gun people....they WILL rain on a lot of peoples parade unless something is done....NOW! :evil: :x

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 8:15 pm 
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This applies to imported stuff. It does not apply to locally made stuff.

Why would you want to import a Hot-Rod from the USA when they subcontract their hard stuff to the Mexicans anyway?


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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:58 pm 
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well i have to re-import my car at the end of this year, so i will let you know how i go via TME .... :? ....

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:38 am 
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mickmini wrote:
well i have to re-import my car at the end of this year, so i will let you know how i go via TME .... :? ....


You shouldn't have an issue with that one, as it has previously been registered here.

I hope you are bringing the 40 back too!!

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1971 Morris Mini Moke
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:39 am 
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This is the response I received from my complaint:

----------------
Dear Mr Nicholson

Thank you for your feedback of 15 May 2010 about the importation of modified vehicles under the pre-1989 scheme.

I can confirm that there has been no change in the definition of when a vehicle is modified or converted after original manufacture. Nor has there been any other relevant change made to the federal requirements for importing vehicles.

Rather, the Department has recently tightened administration of the pre-1989 scheme after abuses of the scheme were detected. These abuses involved vehicles that have been so substantially modified as to constitute newly manufactured vehicles.

For your information, I have provided some detailed background on the topic, set out below. The Department has also added a new alert page to its website. The alert page covers topics raised by recent enquiries. The alert is available at <http://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/importing_vehicles/general/pre1989scheme.aspx>.

Background to the pre-1989 scheme

The Australian Government maintains a number of concessional schemes for the importation of nonstandard and specialist vehicles. One of these schemes - the pre-1989 scheme - allows the importation of vehicles into Australia that were manufactured before 1 January 1989. The scheme is outlined under regulation 17 of the Motor Vehicle Standards Regulations 1989 and was introduced on 1 July 1992.

A vehicle's date of manufacture is the date a vehicle is first driven or moved from the manufacturer's production line or production facility, after the vehicle's body shell and power train assemblies are joined. This is equivalent to the concept of the build date (as developed and used by Australia's automotive industry).

A variety of evidence can potentially be used by applicants to establish that a vehicle was manufactured before 1 January 1989. This includes obsolete make/models, the Vehicle Identification Number structure, registration or purchase documents or a statement from the manufacturer. For example, Australian full-volume vehicles are fitted with identification plates that show the date of manufacture (month and year). Similarly, US vehicles manufactured after 31 August 1969 have a certification label or tag affixed by the manufacturer that specifies the date of manufacture (month and year).

However, if a vehicle has been modified or converted after original manufacture so that the vehicle no longer meets original specifications, the date of manufacture is taken to be the later date of conversion. One indication of a vehicle no longer meeting original specifications is where the vehicle acquires a different make, model or category.

That is, if a vehicle has been so substantially modified as to constitute a newly manufactured vehicle, then the vehicle would fail to qualify for concessional importation under the pre-1989 scheme. This arrangement has been in place since the scheme's introduction in 1992. For example, this general principle was outlined by the Department in 1992 within Administrator's Circular No. 0-2-10. A vehicle manufactured from parts (such as from a dismantled vehicle) is taken to be manufactured as a new vehicle at the time of assembly. Circular 0-2-10 is available from the Department's website at <http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/Circulars/AllCirculars/0-2-10.pdf>.

Vehicle conversions can take different forms. One popular type of conversion is the production of replica cars from components of different makes or models. An example is the conversion of a Volkswagen Beetle into a replica Porsche. Another popular type of modification is the conversion of a passenger sedan into a drag racing car or a hot rod.

On the other hand, a vehicle restoration does not affect the original date of manufacture. For example, an original vehicle may have new paintwork applied, the mechanical components reconditioned or replaced and the interior re-upholstered. Similarly, an original vehicle may be customised (for example, by unique paintwork) if kept within original specifications.

Since the inception of the scheme, the Department has sought material from applicants to establish whether a vehicle has been modified or converted after original manufacture. The prevalence of applications for modified or converted vehicles has increased significantly over recent months and a number of abuses have been detected. In short, the Department now receives a large number of applications for modified or converted vehicles that do not qualify under the scheme. As a result, the Department requests that all applicants provide a recent photograph of the vehicle with their application. Further questions may also be asked regarding any modifications made to the vehicle.

The handling of converted vehicles has remained the same since the scheme's inception in 1992. When abuses of schemes are detected, it is normal to tighten administrative practices and not allow the abuses to continue.

I trust this information will be of assistance to you. If you have any further questions on the matter, you may wish to contact the Department. The contact is Mr Steve Pantelidis, Section Head, Policy & Legislation, Vehicle Safety Standards. Mr Pantelidis can be contacted on telephone 02 6274 7430, facsimile 02 6274 7477 or by email at <[email protected]>.

Yours sincerely


Mark Terrell
Acting General Manager
Vehicle Safety Standards

----------------

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Brett Nicholson
Greendale (near Ballan) VIC.
1971 Morris Mini Moke
1966 Austin Mini
1965 Morris Mini Traveller
1973 LR Series 3 88
2007 LR Freelander 2


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 Post subject: Thanks Brett
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:52 pm 
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Thanks for sharing...certainly a slick response...however, it seems at odds with what is actually happening with some people.

Why are they dead against a vehicle that has been modified anyway? What a crock! A vehicle is a vehicle...they are often changed or modified...how outrageous!! people modify cars!! :P

Loved the one about some people making Beetles into pretend Porkers!! :lol: So..f%&8*&# what! :roll:

I put this up just to warn people that changes have and are being made despite what the nice spindoctor man says :!:

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:24 pm 
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The bit I don't get is, if you take a 46 Ford and stuff a 351 Windsor in it tomorrow. Then get it engineered with appropriate later brakes etc, it's still a 46 Ford in the eyes of VicRoads. Provided the engineer is happy, why should it make a difference if the conversion was done here or in the USA? It's nuts! :roll:

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Greendale (near Ballan) VIC.
1971 Morris Mini Moke
1966 Austin Mini
1965 Morris Mini Traveller
1973 LR Series 3 88
2007 LR Freelander 2


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:45 pm 
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Think more along the lines of importing a 99 Mini using the title of a 86 car.


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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:49 am 
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bnicho wrote:
mickmini wrote:
well i have to re-import my car at the end of this year, so i will let you know how i go via TME .... :? ....


You shouldn't have an issue with that one, as it has previously been registered here.

I hope you are bringing the 40 back too!!


But it is substantially modified - was before it left the country - but how to "prove" that this was the case to the beureaucrats is the issue :o

You want to buy the 40???

cheers
michael

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PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 9:11 am 
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mickmini wrote:
You want to buy the 40???


I just assumed you bought the 40 to bring back as a personal import and keep for yourself. Are you going to bring it back and sell it? Is it RHD?

If the other Mini had a vauxhall engine swap while you were away or you had it stretched and converted to four doors, then maybe you would have issues. But with A series power and evidence of previous rego here with that engine number and chassis number you should not have a problem. It's returning Australian goods, made in Aus, with the Australian Resident who exported them in the first place. You probably won't even have to pay any duties or GST.

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Greendale (near Ballan) VIC.
1971 Morris Mini Moke
1966 Austin Mini
1965 Morris Mini Traveller
1973 LR Series 3 88
2007 LR Freelander 2


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:28 am 
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bnicho wrote:
This is the response I received from my complaint:

----------------
Dear Mr Nicholson

Thank you for your feedback of 15 May 2010 about the importation of modified vehicles under the pre-1989 scheme.

I can confirm that there has been no change in the definition of when a vehicle is modified or converted after original manufacture. Nor has there been any other relevant change made to the federal requirements for importing vehicles.

Rather, the Department has recently tightened administration of the pre-1989 scheme after abuses of the scheme were detected. These abuses involved vehicles that have been so substantially modified as to constitute newly manufactured vehicles.

For your information, I have provided some detailed background on the topic, set out below. The Department has also added a new alert page to its website. The alert page covers topics raised by recent enquiries. The alert is available at <http://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/importing_vehicles/general/pre1989scheme.aspx>.

Background to the pre-1989 scheme

The Australian Government maintains a number of concessional schemes for the importation of nonstandard and specialist vehicles. One of these schemes - the pre-1989 scheme - allows the importation of vehicles into Australia that were manufactured before 1 January 1989. The scheme is outlined under regulation 17 of the Motor Vehicle Standards Regulations 1989 and was introduced on 1 July 1992.

A vehicle's date of manufacture is the date a vehicle is first driven or moved from the manufacturer's production line or production facility, after the vehicle's body shell and power train assemblies are joined. This is equivalent to the concept of the build date (as developed and used by Australia's automotive industry).

A variety of evidence can potentially be used by applicants to establish that a vehicle was manufactured before 1 January 1989. This includes obsolete make/models, the Vehicle Identification Number structure, registration or purchase documents or a statement from the manufacturer. For example, Australian full-volume vehicles are fitted with identification plates that show the date of manufacture (month and year). Similarly, US vehicles manufactured after 31 August 1969 have a certification label or tag affixed by the manufacturer that specifies the date of manufacture (month and year).

However, if a vehicle has been modified or converted after original manufacture so that the vehicle no longer meets original specifications, the date of manufacture is taken to be the later date of conversion. One indication of a vehicle no longer meeting original specifications is where the vehicle acquires a different make, model or category.

That is, if a vehicle has been so substantially modified as to constitute a newly manufactured vehicle, then the vehicle would fail to qualify for concessional importation under the pre-1989 scheme. This arrangement has been in place since the scheme's introduction in 1992. For example, this general principle was outlined by the Department in 1992 within Administrator's Circular No. 0-2-10. A vehicle manufactured from parts (such as from a dismantled vehicle) is taken to be manufactured as a new vehicle at the time of assembly. Circular 0-2-10 is available from the Department's website at <http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/Circulars/AllCirculars/0-2-10.pdf>.

Vehicle conversions can take different forms. One popular type of conversion is the production of replica cars from components of different makes or models. An example is the conversion of a Volkswagen Beetle into a replica Porsche. Another popular type of modification is the conversion of a passenger sedan into a drag racing car or a hot rod.

On the other hand, a vehicle restoration does not affect the original date of manufacture. For example, an original vehicle may have new paintwork applied, the mechanical components reconditioned or replaced and the interior re-upholstered. Similarly, an original vehicle may be customised (for example, by unique paintwork) if kept within original specifications.

Since the inception of the scheme, the Department has sought material from applicants to establish whether a vehicle has been modified or converted after original manufacture. The prevalence of applications for modified or converted vehicles has increased significantly over recent months and a number of abuses have been detected. In short, the Department now receives a large number of applications for modified or converted vehicles that do not qualify under the scheme. As a result, the Department requests that all applicants provide a recent photograph of the vehicle with their application. Further questions may also be asked regarding any modifications made to the vehicle.

The handling of converted vehicles has remained the same since the scheme's inception in 1992. When abuses of schemes are detected, it is normal to tighten administrative practices and not allow the abuses to continue.

I trust this information will be of assistance to you. If you have any further questions on the matter, you may wish to contact the Department. The contact is Mr Steve Pantelidis, Section Head, Policy & Legislation, Vehicle Safety Standards. Mr Pantelidis can be contacted on telephone 02 6274 7430, facsimile 02 6274 7477 or by email at <[email protected]>.

Yours sincerely


Mark Terrell
Acting General Manager
Vehicle Safety Standards

----------------


Brett/Others...I made sure this issue was raised at the Council of Cars meeting in Canberra during the week...with any luck, councils in other states will follow suite and get stuck into it as well...Cheers, Mick

There are already grumblings about lobbying and a possible class action based on the Terrel "form letter" (it went out to lots of people btw)

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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2010 1:43 pm 
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Mick, I think you'll find that the reason it was a "form" letter is because a large number of people had the same complaints. I certainly wouldn't be happy if they were spending all of their time writing individual letters on the same topic!

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