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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:55 pm 
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Location: Wodonga - Vic/NSW border
Hanra wrote:
Is there an issue with pre ignition when fitting the SC12 on a 1275?


not really an issue... just gotta deal with it, like any forced induction setup.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:24 pm 
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848cc
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what kind of pressure are these blowers rated to??
how much can you compress the inlet charge without it turning in a pile of useless superheated air??


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:27 pm 
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Had some setup work at A&B's completed My local rolling road, with the simple Water injection system. We used the .70 jet and switched the pump and solinoid on at 5PSI. We stuck some temp strips onto the charger and the inlet manifold:

Charger body temp
No-WI = 40C
WI = 34C

Inlet manifold body temp (After Charger)
No WI = 62C!
WI = 45C

I know it would be better to have a temp sender but I dont have a boss in my manifold so the sticky things was the best we could do.

I haven't changed the map advance to take advantage of the inlet temp and I'm using straight water.

A good days work.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:00 am 
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848cc
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Excellent!

A clear example of how effective water injection is. . .do you have any sense of the car running 'better' with the water on? My Moke without a doubt runs more smoothly on boost with the water on. . .presumably simply due the lower temps holding detonation at bay.

For my own interest - what carb, needle, spring and dashpot oil are you running?

Edit - whoops. . .an old thread tells me it's close-ish to a BCG. . .


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:54 am 
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848cc
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Hi mate I'm now running a 38mm bike carb with a custom needle and double spring. We never had to do any work on the needle the fueling remained the same.

The car ran 1 extra bhp with the water than without, but as you said the manifold is now touchable where as before it got a little bit warm!. I found a water injection calculator on the web that suggests that the .70jet is about the max with my horsepower. I know these are a guide and i dont have the exact figures of the pump psi, but the rolling road proved the car would hang onto the boost even after a few runs. Previously the operator told me that my car would drop some boost when then heat was increased after a few runs. I think you would see more in an acceleration test rather than ATW bhp.
My operator said when they have setup WI before on other cars if you added too much water the power would drop off. This didn't happen with the .70jet so we left it in.
So far very happy.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:36 pm 
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What I have found is that WI doesn't increase the maximum power by very much but it does increase mid range torque and keeps inlets temps more steady.

Generally you want about a 10:1 fuel water ratio so if the enigne cunsumes 500ml of fuel in one minute you want to spray about 50ml of water in.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:21 am 
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The figures agree with you on my car we saw an increase lower down the rev range.the water was harder to calculate for a person of limited intelligence like me ESP when you are utilising a home brew setup. Looking at the calculator below the .70jet is the upper limit. However I had to guess things like the pump pressure as it's a vdo headlight unit..... The power figures showed the car likes the cooler intake and it made the same power top end as the .35 jet so we left the .70 in....

It feels much better on the road than before, as I took it for a spin down to my local club meeting tonight. The cooler inlet must be a good thing for det, and valve life.

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Last edited by gr4h4m on Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:33 am 
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Calculator on the link below. With the following settings I get the magic 10:1 but it's a bit of a guess at the pump pressure.... Plus the up is at total boost as I cant stage it in.

Settings
1 jet
100 hp
10 psi pump pressure after the reducing factor stated on the website for the drop by the nozzle
100% water

I get 10:1 air to liquid ratio and 24% coolant to fuel ratio so maybe a high, who knows but it seems to run great...

Calculator at the bottom of the page linked below

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:52 am 
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all very interesting :)

When you pull it apart to put the 1380 in, it would be good to see if there is any marking on the pistons/bores from the water. I've heard (but don't have first hand knowledge) that water injection can damage bores


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:07 am 
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Who knows but then a lot depends how much you are going to use it. Everyone also said putting a supercharger on an engine build in 1969 would last 5mins let alone the four years ihave been running it. But the car only does about 2k a year. I would suggest that as long as your not on it all of the time the engine has chance to splash a bit of oil back on the bores... Time will tell.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 10:16 am 
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gr4h4m wrote:
Everyone also said putting a supercharger on an engine build in 1969 would last 5mins let alone the four years ihave been running it.


ha! did you remind them that superchargers were put on various cars from the factory in the 1920's?

Quote:
In 1900, Gottlieb Daimler, of Daimler-Benz (Daimler AG), was the first to patent a forced-induction system for internal combustion engines, superchargers based the twin-rotor air-pump design, first patented by the American Francis Roots in 1860, the basic design for the modern Roots type supercharger.

The first supercharged cars were introduced at the 1921 Berlin Motor Show: the 6/20 hp and 10/35 hp Mercedes. These cars went into production in 1923 as the 6/25/40 hp (regarded as the first supercharged road car[2]) and 10/40/65 hp.[3] These were normal road cars as other supercharged cars at same time were almost all racing cars, including the 1923 Fiat 805-405, 1923 Miller 122[4] 1924 Alfa Romeo P2, 1924 Sunbeam,[5] 1925 Delage,[6] and the 1926 Bugatti Type 35C. At the end of the 1920s, Bentley made a supercharged version of the Bentley 4½ Litre road car. Since then, superchargers (and turbochargers) have been widely applied to racing and production cars, although the supercharger's technological complexity and cost have largely limited it to expensive, high-performance cars.



gr4h4m wrote:
But the car only does about 2k a year. I would suggest that as long as your not on it all of the time the engine has chance to splash a bit of oil back on the bores... Time will tell.


it will indeed :)

mine has done two motorkhanas and 1000k's in the last month :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 4:38 pm 
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848cc
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simon k wrote:
gr4h4m wrote:
Everyone also said putting a supercharger on an engine build in 1969 would last 5mins let alone the four years ihave been running it.


ha! did you remind them that superchargers were put on various cars from the factory in the 1920's


Yes but Graham's engine hasn't been rebuilt in between :D (only the head) goes to show how good tuning and regular maintenance these engines can be very reliable.

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Last edited by 92 on Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:40 pm 
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PetenSoaf wrote:
Minifreak_brg67 wrote:
The super in the moke is it on a standed engine?

If not what has been done to it?


Completely standard, normal old 998.

That setup has now been removed and replaced with a draw though SC12. The standard engine underneath still wont die.

Clean oil, not too much advance, plenty of fuel and a water injection system keep it alive. . .

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 5:40 pm 
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PetenSoaf wrote:
PetenSoaf wrote:
Minifreak_brg67 wrote:
The super in the moke is it on a standed engine?

If not what has been done to it?


Completely standard, normal old 998.

That setup has now been removed and replaced with a draw though SC12. The standard engine underneath still wont die.

Clean oil, not too much advance, plenty of fuel and a water injection system keep it alive. . .


Image


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:13 am 
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848cc
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I'm a big fan of millers ctv20. 50 I'm not sure it you can get it in the sunny side of the world? If you can it's great. It's built for gearbox's in the sump and doesn't breakdown at temp, it's good to 110 deg.

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