What are the risks of divulging Car and engine no's paint details etc. ?

I'm not trying to be a smart arse here but am seriously interested in knowing the reasons people have.

If a register only contains the details of the car eg the sort of details mentioned by Watto or XC9000 for example then I can't see that that represents any risk to the car being stolen.

I was talking to someone today who owns a number of quite valuable cars and they publish a register in their club magazine. The only connection to the owners is a simple email of phone no. and only if the owner agrees and this and they don't mind being contacted by other owners.

The only risk I can think of is that someone could take the details of a genuine car from the register and use them to clone it into a fake. They could then give a more convincing argument that the fake is real by siting the matching details on the register.

If someone wanted to do this, as Bubbaclubby pointed out, they need only visit one Show and Shine and they would soon have all the info they needed to make dozens of fakes.

There is probably a far greater risk of your Rego plate being shown because then if someone was able to illegally obtain your details from you rego plate no. then they would know your address.

As I say I'm not trying to be smart but interested in the pros, cons, risks and opinions of such info being available.

_________________

68 Morris Cooper S Mk1 (*ex 78 1275 LS 4th last built, 70 Morris 1500 OHC & 70 MiniMatic)

Cars are indexed by a number of ways - eg rego number, engine number and body or vin number.

The roads and transport authorities and the police are not the only bodies that can have acess to those details. Insurances companies etc can access them as well.

Although there is supposed to be an audit trail to anyone accessing that information its not always the case.

Yes - its correct that a car on show somewhere or even one on the street is exposed to the same risks but somebody sitting in front of a computer with the right access codes and passwords and with the details in front of them can do a very detailed search.

The idea is to just be a bit careful with what information you publish and be wary of anyone copying details of a car at a show. A good Cooper S is a high value asset that attracts attention from thieves.

Mike

There is ZERO that anyone can do regarding the easiest car identifier - number plates.

If someone is determined to steal your prize Cooper S, they will. Body Numbers, Engine Number, Paint Colour nor even Trim Colour will stand in their way.

To list a car on (for example) Carpoint, you can list the Engine and Body Numbers and in any event, a prospective purchaser (or someone posing as) can call and ask for these to do a REVS Check (or what ever it is called these days). That is all above board. If you don't hand over the info, then there is a good likelihood you'll never sell it.

Every new car proudly has it's VIN on display, almost like a number plate. These are at no more risk of being stolen than any mini.

There is SFA to be achieved by hiding these details in regards to security, but if you're that paranoid, it's probably best that you never drive your prize.

The best security is just being a bit wise about where and how you park your car. Alarms and Keys will only stop honest people and maybe slow down a thief.

Get over it.

_________________

I think the issue is that, as it presently stands, you can add details to a register that you cannot access - so where is the encouragement.

There is no reason why the following details could not be held online for everyone to view and built up from there:

Car Number - Engine Number on plate - Engine number - Colour

This worked perfectly well as the GT register.

Watto - If you are unable (for a very good reason) to devote the time to placing the register online, it would appear others are willing. Maybe you could consider passing it on as it was passed on to you so we can all benefit in the near future.

The more known Cooper S car's added to the register, the more useful it is for prospective buyers.

The biggest danger of publishing a register of Cooper S numbers is not the id's themselves, however information regarding written off or retired cars (cars that are not officially listed as Write off's etc ) is.
A Shonk car made from a stolen vin id off a car seen at show or off a list is just plain stupid, you couldn't register it as there would be a twin on the rego system which in turn sends up a red flag.
All this rego info is linked to the AFP computor data base.
A police officer can search for a type of car from any state and come up with a list of cars from each state. If you tried to register an existing Cooper S i'm sure you would end up with the boy's in blue on your doorstep sooner or later.
However a shonk could quite easily take vin from a retired car and reintroduce it as restored. Thats where the rebirthing of stolen cars gets hard to follow.
Mk2's would be the easiest to rebirth as they dont have id plates.
But if you have an id plate for a Mk1 then it wouldn't be any harder to rebirth a stolen or cloned car.

Personally I hope that the complete list Watto has compiled doesn't get made public.
Or at least no info to suggest if the cars were written off or known to be retired.
If you need to check your own car or a prospective purchase just ask Watto and he would most likely be happy to confirm the existance the car on the register as genuine or written off.

Thanks Rob
(No offence to any other poster's intended)

_________________
82 BJ42 just completed resto
64 850 Modified(about to start rebuild)

Mine does

_________________
1964 998cc Cooper
1971 Mini K x 2
1972 Clubman GT

They did all get the big square `compliance' plates from about Dec 1969 until roundnoses ended in 1971.
My `Matic is 03/70 and has one.

_________________
DrMini- 1970 wasaMatic 1360, Mk1S crank, 86.6HP (ATW) =~125 @ crank, 45 Dellorto (38 chokes), RE282 sprint cam, 1.5 rockers, 11.0:1 C/R.

My Mk 2 Has the square one 03/70

_________________
1970 Mk 2 Cooper S

I think Rob is referring to the early Mk2's (Around 69) which did not have plates. They are often incorrectly called Mk1.5's.

Hi all,
Monaco is on the money.
I was referring to the early Mk2 without a compliance plate not the later ones with.
The point of my post was that any car can be rebirthed with another cars id.
Unless you have a clean id that isn't written off, stolen or in use it just isn't worth the effort involved. You would get caught.
Most cars that are stolen are stripped for parts not rebirted.
It is more profitable to sell parts than risk trying to rebirth a car.
A register is a great tool as long as the dead/retired cars are not identified and put out there for scammers to use.

Cheers Rob

_________________
82 BJ42 just completed resto
64 850 Modified(about to start rebuild)

If it is more profitable to sell parts than risk trying to rebirth a car then there is no problem with listing dead/retired cars on a register as nobody would use these details anyway.

_________________
1964 998cc Cooper
1971 Mini K x 2
1972 Clubman GT

The only problem is not all the cars are officially listed as Write offs.
And thats another story all together.
Mister X lists a mini he left for dead in a paddock.
Its not reported to police or rego as written off.
Mister Y finds dead car and decides he can fix it.
Y spends thousands rebuilding said car and goes to list his restored car.
Holder of list says hang on that car was listed as dead.
There are grey area's and everyone has opinions.
Mister Y isn't a Shonk but holder of list may thing he is.
Unless a car is officially written off I wouldn't think listing cars on a register as dead is good thing. Could be a double edged sword if you know what I mean.

Time to shut my mouth.
Cheers all.

_________________
82 BJ42 just completed resto
64 850 Modified(about to start rebuild)

No, not at all. I think you and others have made some good points.

I think it's worth thrashing out the pros and cons if we are ever going to have a published register. So keep the comments coming everyone.

_________________

68 Morris Cooper S Mk1 (*ex 78 1275 LS 4th last built, 70 Morris 1500 OHC & 70 MiniMatic)

I think the publshed register should only include remaining cars in complete or project form. It should not include someone's Mk1 plate attached to their bar!

I just think just state the details, There is no need to mention whether dead/alive/registered/non registered etc. It is just a list.

The clubman GT register worked along these lines and there never any problems with it.

I understand not wanting to list an unregistered car, but by just stating the details as far an anyone looking at the list is concerned it is a road registered vehicle and cannot be copied incase of doubling the numbers and getting into trouble.

I mean if it is a matter of listing numbers incase of copying. Anyone with a knowledge of minis and rough production dates (which could be obtained through google) could get some numbers from thin air and make a car from them.

Something like well i want car YG2S4 1127 with engine number 9f/Xe/Y/ 53602 that was produced in early 1970. (some of those details may be slightly wrong as i dont know much about cooper s's, but more so GT's, but a bit more research i could get it right) and wella i got some numbers and made myself a cooper s. I didnt even need a list.

Thats my thoughts

_________________